Brief
Bob Lazar
The claims the writer was given for Bob Lazar, in the order they were given.
1
David Fravor attended the McMinnville UFO Festival together with Bob Lazar.
“so I went with Bob Lazar.”
David Fravor: UFOs, Aliens, Fighter Jets, and Aerospace Engineering | Lex Fridman Podcast #122 2020-09-08 02:55:18.7-02:55:19.9 testimony first hand
2
At the McMinnville UFO Festival, David Fravor and his wife spent time socialising with Bob Lazar and his wife without discussing UFO topics.
“I got to hang out with Bob and his wife and his wife and my wife and we all hung out kind of talking, not about UFO stuff, but just getting to know each other as people”
David Fravor: UFOs, Aliens, Fighter Jets, and Aerospace Engineering | Lex Fridman Podcast #122 2020-09-08 02:55:21.1-02:55:29.2 testimony first hand
3
David Fravor considers Bob Lazar's public notoriety over his UFO-related claims to have damaged Bob Lazar's life.
“The stuff that he talks about is not the center of his life. If anything, it ruined his life.”
David Fravor: UFOs, Aliens, Fighter Jets, and Aerospace Engineering | Lex Fridman Podcast #122 2020-09-08 02:55:32.7-02:55:35.8 opinion first hand
4
David Fravor considers Bob Lazar a straightforward, sane, normal, and very intelligent person.
“I'll tell you, Bob is a straightforward, very sane, normal, super smart guy.”
David Fravor: UFOs, Aliens, Fighter Jets, and Aerospace Engineering | Lex Fridman Podcast #122 2020-09-08 03:02:42.5-03:02:47.1 opinion first hand
5
Bob Lazar has said that he understood he was under an oath of secrecy but felt the technology he encountered could benefit all of mankind and should not be locked away.
“If you ask Bob, why did you say something? His answer was, I understand there's an oath, but I felt that the technology could benefit all of mankind and it shouldn't be locked away.”
David Fravor: UFOs, Aliens, Fighter Jets, and Aerospace Engineering | Lex Fridman Podcast #122 2020-09-08 03:03:02.7-03:03:13.0 hearsay second hand
6
David Fravor considers Bob Lazar a propulsion specialist.
“So Bob is a propulsion guy.”
David Fravor: UFOs, Aliens, Fighter Jets, and Aerospace Engineering | Lex Fridman Podcast #122 2020-09-08 03:07:20.2-03:07:22.5 opinion first hand
7
Bob Lazar has a bicycle fitted with a rocket motor.
“Bob has a bicycle with a rocket motor.”
David Fravor: UFOs, Aliens, Fighter Jets, and Aerospace Engineering | Lex Fridman Podcast #122 2020-09-08 03:07:24.4-03:07:25.8 testimony first hand
8
Bob Lazar built a rocket car.
“He built a rocket car.”
David Fravor: UFOs, Aliens, Fighter Jets, and Aerospace Engineering | Lex Fridman Podcast #122 2020-09-08 03:07:26.2-03:07:26.9 testimony first hand
9
Bob Lazar is a Nevada businessman who went public in the late 1980s with claims that he worked as a physicist at Area 51 on reverse-engineering propulsion systems of recovered alien craft.
“Lazar is a Nevada businessman who went public in the late 1980s with incredible, and much disputed, claims that he worked as a physicist at Area 51 on reverse-engineering propulsion systems of recovered ali”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch13:19774-19967 testimony first hand
10
Jim Goodall met Bob Lazar before Lazar made the allegation that he had worked at Site 4 (S-4).
“Goodall met Lazar well before he ever made the allegation that he had worked at so-called Site 4 (S-4)”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch13:19995-20095 administrative first hand
11
At their first meeting in the early 1980s, Bob Lazar was a UFO sceptic who mocked John Lear for his outspoken belief in UFOs.
“Goodall told me that, at their first meeting in the early 1980s, Bob Lazar was actually a UFO sceptic and both of them mocked a mutual pilot friend John Lear for his outspoken belief in UFOs”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch13:20222-20408 testimony first hand
12
Bob Lazar once said he was a nuclear physicist who would not admit UFOs are real even with a gun to his head.
“‘Bob Lazar said, “I’m a nuclear physicist and . . . I wouldn’t admit that UFOs are real even if you put a gun to my head,”’ Goodall recalled ironically”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch13:20415-20555 testimony second hand
13
In 1989, Bob Lazar went public in an interview with journalist George Knapp on Las Vegas television station KLAS-TV, asserting anonymously at first his purported employment working on a recovered extra-terrestrial flying saucer at the supposed Site 4 (S-4) facility.
“Years later, in 1989, Lazar went public in an interview with investigative journalist George Knapp on Las Vegas TV station KLAS, asserting (anonymously, at first) his purported employment working on a recovered extra-terrestrial flying saucer at the supposed S-4 facility, adjacent to Papoose Lake south of Area 51”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch13:20633-20945 administrative
14
An Area 51 source of Jim Goodall's went treasure-hunting about a 30-minute south-westerly drive from the main Area 51 base, near where Bob Lazar said the Site 4 (S-4) site was located, and was confronted by armed security personnel demanding identification who appeared to arrive with no vehicle and no visible building or tunnel.
“another Area 51 source of his went treasure-hunting near where Lazar said the mythical S-4 site was located, a 30-minute south-westerly drive from the main Area 51 base... 'there were a handful of black clad security guys with weapons wanting to know, "What are you doing here? Let's see some ID,"' Goodall said. He said what struck his source the most was that the security men did not arrive by vehicle, yet there was no evidence of any building or tunnel they came from.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch13:21211-21839 hearsay second hand
15
Two decades after Bob Lazar's 1989 disclosure, a former SR-71 Blackbird pilot named David Fruehauf went public in a television interview, partially backing Lazar's claims and calling him very credible.
“Two decades later, a former SR-71 pilot, David Fruehauf (whom I surmise was Jim Goodall's confidential 'Dave' source), went public in a television interview, partially backing Lazar's claims. 'I think he's very credible,' Fruehauf asserted.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch13:22093-22326 opinion first hand
16
Bob Lazar was never at USA, Nevada, Area 51 at the same time as David Fruehauf, but Fruehauf considered Lazar's account very accurate and said he sounded totally believable.
“Lazar was never at Area 51 at the same time as Fruehauf, but Fruehauf said Lazar's account was very accurate. 'He sounded totally believable to me,' Fruehauf said.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch13:22991-23149 opinion first hand
17
David Fruehauf claimed he knew witnesses who saw Bob Lazar somewhere at USA, Nevada, Area 51.
“He also claimed he knew witnesses who saw Lazar somewhere at Area 51.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch13:23155-23221 hearsay first hand
18
Bob Lazar claimed that when he went public, an official cover-up began, including men in black wiping his university degree records.
“Lazar has claimed that when he went public, the official cover-up began, and this included the men in black wiping his university degree records.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch13:23394-23531 testimony first hand
19
George Knapp rebutted official denials that Bob Lazar ever worked at Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico, citing an old news story placing Lazar there and the fact that Lazar sneaked Knapp into the secure facility and was familiar with the site and its workers.
“Journalist George Knapp has convincingly rebutted official denials that Lazar ever worked at Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico; not only is there an old news story placing him there, Lazar sneaked Knapp into the secure facility and Lazar was clearly very familiar with the site and knew workers inside.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch13:23810-24116 testimony first hand
20
Filmmaker Jeremy Corbell found a witness whom Bob Lazar said had vetted him for his USA, Nevada, Area 51 security clearance.
“Filmmaker Jeremy Corbell also found a witness whom Lazar said vetted him for his Area 51 security clearance.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch13:24124-24222 testimony first hand
21
In 1990, Bob Lazar was arrested for aiding and abetting a prostitution ring, a charge eventually reduced to felony pandering, for which he served community service.
“it did not help Lazar's credibility that, in 1990, he was arrested for aiding and abetting a prostitution ring, a charge eventually reduced to felony pandering, for which he served community service”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch13:24239-24430 administrative
22
Bob Lazar worked on Project Gravator.
“I know recently I did a video deep dive into Bob Lazar's latest project, Project Gravator.”
Journalist Leaked UAP Program "Immaculate Constellation" - DEBRIEFED ep. 10 2024-10-18 00:06:41.2-00:06:45.6 administrative
23
Bob Lazar was the first person to publicly claim he worked on retrieved alien craft.
“It is interesting that Bob was like the first guy to come out and say he worked on these crafts.”
Journalist Leaked UAP Program "Immaculate Constellation" - DEBRIEFED ep. 10 2024-10-18 00:07:01.8-00:07:05.8 opinion first hand
24
Bob Lazar claimed to have worked on intact alien craft.
“Not only did he say he worked on these crafts, but he worked on ones that were intact.”
Journalist Leaked UAP Program "Immaculate Constellation" - DEBRIEFED ep. 10 2024-10-18 00:07:06.4-00:07:10.4 hearsay second hand
25
Bob Lazar described chairs on the craft he worked on as protruding from the floor without seams, with everything appearing molded and having no sharp edges.
“I'm reminded obviously of Bob Lazar's description of the craft that he worked on were those, what seemed like chairs also protruded from the floor without seams. Nothing had seams. There was no seams anywhere. And Bob was talking about this too, this idea that everything looked molded.”
UFO Witness Reveals CHILLING Daytime Alien Encounter - Peter Khoury - DEBRIEFED ep. 58 2025-10-17 01:20:02.3-01:20:17.5 hearsay second hand
26
Critics of Bob Lazar dispute his academic record, and Ross Coulthart holds that Bob Lazar does not have two master's degrees from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) and the California Institute of Technology (Caltech).
“People criticize his academic record. I say that he doesn't have two master's degrees from MIT and Caltech.”
The DANGEROUS Truth About UFOs - Ross Coulthart | DEBRIEFED ep. 76 2026-02-20 02:00:29.3-02:00:34.9 opinion first hand
27
Ross Coulthart believes Bob Lazar almost certainly did work at Area 51, which is officially denied.
“I know Bob Lazar almost certainly did work at Area 51, which of course is officially denied. I believe he did.”
The DANGEROUS Truth About UFOs - Ross Coulthart | DEBRIEFED ep. 76 2026-02-20 02:00:37.0-02:00:44.4 opinion first hand
28
Dave Fruehauf told Ross Coulthart that he had spoken to multiple people who had seen Bob Lazar at Area 51, though not during Dave Fruehauf's own time there.
“he'd also spoken to multiple people who had seen Bob Lazar at Area 51, not when he was there.”
The DANGEROUS Truth About UFOs - Ross Coulthart | DEBRIEFED ep. 76 2026-02-20 02:00:59.9-02:01:09.0 hearsay third hand
29
Ross Coulthart regards the second-hand reports of Bob Lazar being seen at Area 51 as weakish but quite persuasive evidence that Bob Lazar was potentially telling the truth.
“So it was kind of weakish evidence, but to me, it was quite persuasive evidence... That Bob was potentially telling the truth.”
The DANGEROUS Truth About UFOs - Ross Coulthart | DEBRIEFED ep. 76 2026-02-20 02:01:09.8-02:01:15.4 opinion first hand
30
One of the allegations used to discredit Bob Lazar is that he ran a brothel; Ross Coulthart regards this as irrelevant and notes that brothels are legal in Nevada.
“one of the things that's used to discredit him is the allegation that he ran a brothel... And so what if he did?... last time I checked, brothels were legal in Nevada, aren't they?”
The DANGEROUS Truth About UFOs - Ross Coulthart | DEBRIEFED ep. 76 2026-02-20 02:01:22.9-02:01:31.6 opinion first hand
31
Chris Ramsay considers the brothel allegation against Bob Lazar irrelevant to his credibility, and notes that a lot of wild people were being hired at the time.
“That's what I'm saying too. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. It has nothing to do... I would also say that... to you know they were hiring a lot of wild people back then”
The DANGEROUS Truth About UFOs - Ross Coulthart | DEBRIEFED ep. 76 2026-02-20 02:01:29.9-02:01:41.5 opinion first hand
32
Scientists say that the isotopic ratios of Moscovium (element 115) as described by Bob Lazar cannot survive long enough to be useful as an energy source in the way he describes.
“the other one is um Moscovium element 115 um you know the scientists say that it's in his isotopic ratios that he describes it can't possibly survive to be useful as an energy source in the way that he describes”
The DANGEROUS Truth About UFOs - Ross Coulthart | DEBRIEFED ep. 76 2026-02-20 02:01:46.1-02:02:00.2 hearsay second hand
33
Ross Coulthart says he is neither a scientist nor a physicist, and would like to put the scientific objection about Moscovium (element 115) directly to Bob Lazar.
“i'm not a scientist i'm not a physicist but i would love to put that to him and and hear that”
The DANGEROUS Truth About UFOs - Ross Coulthart | DEBRIEFED ep. 76 2026-02-20 02:02:01.6-02:02:05.8 testimony first hand
34
Bill Herman was told by the beings that they were from Zeta Reticulum, before Bob Lazar discussed Zeta Reticuli.
“before bob there was a bill herman as well who was told by the beings that they were from zeta reticulum as well”
"Skinny Bob is Real" – Lifelong Abductee Reveals Everything - Erik Nanstiel | DEBRIEFED ep. 85 2026-04-24 01:04:00.0-01:04:11.4 hearsay
35
When Bob Lazar read briefing papers at S4, the military reported that the Greys considered humans as containers, and that humans were given religion so they would not damage the containers.
“the the the military reported that the greys considered humans as containers and we were given religion so that we wouldn't damage the containers”
"Skinny Bob is Real" – Lifelong Abductee Reveals Everything - Erik Nanstiel | DEBRIEFED ep. 85 2026-04-24 01:31:38.2-01:31:50.0 hearsay second hand
36
Bob Lazar speculated, without firmly standing by it, that the Greys' reference to humans as containers might mean containers of souls or containers of blood, since the Greys consume blood.
“he speculated but he doesn't really stand beside this firmly like but he was speculated well maybe they meant containers of souls you know or containers of blood since they consume blood”
"Skinny Bob is Real" – Lifelong Abductee Reveals Everything - Erik Nanstiel | DEBRIEFED ep. 85 2026-04-24 01:31:50.0-01:32:10.4 opinion second hand
37
A person named Chuck Payne worked at USA, Nevada, S4.
“I can tell you the person, the name of another person that no one has heard of that worked there. His name was Chuck Payne.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:02:03.4-00:02:10.8 testimony first hand
38
Bob Lazar intentionally withheld the name Chuck Payne for a long time because Chuck Payne was a well-known, overt security person at USA, Nevada, S4.
“I always intentionally withheld several things about S4 because Chuck Payne was a really well-known guy because he really stood out as this, I don't know, overt security person.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:04:05.4-00:04:19.2 testimony first hand
39
Chuck Payne was one of the security guards at USA, Nevada, S4.
“He was one of the security guards there.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:04:23.0-00:04:25.5 testimony first hand
40
Bob Lazar had never mentioned Chuck Payne's name to anyone, including George Knapp, before this interview with Luigi Venditelli.
“Have you ever mentioned this to George Knapp? No, no.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:04:31.1-00:04:33.6 testimony first hand
41
Unlike most of the tight-lipped and quiet security guards at USA, Nevada, S4, Chuck Payne was an extrovert who greeted Bob Lazar and others personally.
“of all the security guards around there were very tight-lipped and quiet and really had minimal interaction with them, Chuck was different and he stood out... he was the only one that was just a bit of an extrovert.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:04:46.6-00:05:09.7 testimony first hand
42
Chuck Payne was well known to everyone who worked at USA, Nevada, S4, such that anyone naming a security guard there would name him.
“If somebody said, you know, name a guard's name, they'd say Chuck Payne.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:05:32.0-00:05:35.4 testimony first hand
43
According to people Bob Lazar knows who investigated Dennis Mariani's fate, it appears that Dennis Mariani has died.
“from those that did, it looked like Dennis Mariani died.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:06:43.7-00:06:46.1 hearsay second hand
44
Bob Lazar has seen a photograph of a gravestone that he believes, along with other connecting details, belongs to Dennis Mariani.
“I had pictures of a gravestone and, you know, people seem to, this guy, it connects all the dots. This looks like it was the guy.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:06:48.8-00:06:55.4 testimony first hand
45
Dennis Mariani was older than Bob Lazar.
“He was older than me.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:07:02.4-00:07:02.8 testimony first hand
46
Luigi Venditelli was surprised when Bob Lazar first revealed the name Chuck Payne in an interview held approximately three years before this recording.
“i was surprised when he let that out with me in an interview this was ha this happened like over three years ago”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:08:08.7-00:08:15.5 testimony first hand
47
The 'Chuck Payne' who is a senator and comes up in an online search of the name is a different person from the Chuck Payne who Bob Lazar said worked as a security guard at USA, Nevada, S4.
“the Chuck Payne that you are going to find should you Google this name is not the Chuck Payne as mentioned in the interview with Bob that worked at S4. it is a senator”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:09:06.6-00:09:16.0 administrative first hand
48
The film crew for Project Gravator, including Motivo and Art My Crew, filmed Bob Lazar with a DeLorean time machine prop in the desert near Las Vegas, and the crew stayed together in a rented Airbnb mansion in Las Vegas during the shoot.
“That was the time that we went out to Las Vegas, the whole crew of Motivo, Art My Crew and Project Gravator crew basically, we went out and filmed with a DeLorean time machine in the desert... we had rented an airbnb in las vegas which is a giant mansion”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:09:45.2-00:10:01.0 testimony first hand
49
During the desert filming trip, Bob Lazar told Luigi Venditelli that there was something he could share that he had not shared before.
“He immediately looked at me and said, You guys are really doing an incredible job. And I think there's something I can say.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:10:48.4-00:10:55.6 testimony first hand
50
Luigi Venditelli considers the independent corroboration of Dennis Mariani's existence as flying on Janet Airlines jets to Groom Lake as supporting the reality of Bob Lazar's account, since Bob Lazar was the one who first mentioned Dennis Mariani.
“It helps the argument that that could have been reality. And Bob was the guy who mentioned Dennis Mariani.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:12:17.4-00:12:24.0 opinion first hand
51
After Bob Lazar came forward publicly, George Knapp called Bob Lazar and asked to meet him at the Union Plaza Hotel in USA, Nevada, Las Vegas.
“he called to meet at the union plaza hotel... to meet at the Union Plaza hotel.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:12:56.5-00:12:58.0 testimony first hand
52
George Knapp's call to arrange the meeting at the Union Plaza Hotel came relatively soon after Bob Lazar came forward publicly, not months later.
“no it wasn't months i don't think it was months... yeah it was it was definitely relatively soon after”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:13:09.3-00:13:15.8 testimony first hand
53
When Bob Lazar went to meet Dennis Mariani, he brought Gene Huff along as a witness.
“i said this time i want witnesses had friends come with me... there he is Gene Huff i said that's Dennis Mariani right there”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:14:29.6-00:14:39.2 testimony first hand
54
As Bob Lazar approached the meeting with Dennis Mariani, he saw other faces coming from Dennis Mariani's direction that he recognised as having seen at USA, Nevada, S4.
“as I walked in, I saw other faces that I've seen at S4 walk by me coming from his direction.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:14:54.2-00:15:00.9 observation first hand
55
When Bob Lazar approached Dennis Mariani and said his name, Dennis Mariani would not look at him or respond.
“when I went up to Dennis Marani, he wouldn't even look at me. I stood right behind him. I stood right next to him and he just like, I wasn't even there. I went Dennis and no response.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:15:11.4-00:15:23.6 observation first hand
56
Bob Lazar believes the unfamiliar faces he saw near Dennis Mariani at the Union Plaza Hotel meeting were security personnel from USA, Nevada, S4.
“No, I think they were security.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:15:42.6-00:15:43.3 opinion first hand
57
Chuck Payne was not among the unfamiliar security faces Bob Lazar saw at the meeting with Dennis Mariani.
“It wasn't Chuck. No.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:15:44.9-00:15:46.1 testimony first hand
58
John Lear said that over a billion aliens were living in the mountains outside USA, Nevada, Las Vegas.
“He said there is over a billion aliens living in the mountains outside of Las Vegas.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:16:49.6-00:16:53.8 hearsay second hand
59
John Lear said there was an entire civilisation inside the sun and that the sun is not actually hot but is some kind of special effect.
“that there is an entire civilization in the sun and that the sun isn't actually hot it's some special effect”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:16:54.6-00:17:01.0 hearsay second hand
60
John Lear said that a person could breathe on Venus.
“that you can breathe on venus”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:17:01.6-00:17:02.7 hearsay second hand
61
Bob Lazar told John Lear to his face that he thought Lear's claims about the sun and Venus were nonsense and that Lear was crazy.
“i tell john he was crazy to his face i said this is all you know absolute nonsense”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:17:05.3-00:17:09.6 opinion first hand
62
Bob Lazar does not think people took John Lear seriously at the time Lear was making these claims about aliens, the sun, and Venus.
“i don't see people taking john lear as serious at that time”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:17:12.2-00:17:16.4 opinion first hand
63
Bob Lazar believes John Lear's statements became increasingly extreme as time went on, compared to when Bob Lazar first knew him.
“as time went on the things he said got crazier and crazier”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:17:25.5-00:17:29.9 opinion first hand
64
Dennis Mariani would stare at Bob Lazar for 20 minutes in a menacing way during the bus ride to USA, Nevada, S4.
“the same guy who'd stare at you for 20 minutes in that ride to S4 menacingly”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:19:58.3-00:20:02.9 testimony first hand
65
The bus that transported Bob Lazar to USA, Nevada, S4 had no window to look out of.
“And there's not even a window to look out of it. So you just look at the back of the driver's head.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:20:24.9-00:20:28.6 observation first hand
66
Dennis Mariani invited Bob Lazar to come see a test flight outside at USA, Nevada, S4.
“But he's also the guy that was like, hey, come see this launch outside. Come see this test flight, right?”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:20:30.0-00:20:36.4 testimony first hand
67
Bob Lazar and his colleagues at USA, Nevada, S4 were told there would be a test at two o'clock and to be in the big hangar.
“Said, you know, there's going to be a test at two o'clock. You guys get your stuff done. Be out there in the big hangar.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:20:58.8-00:21:04.2 testimony first hand
68
On the day of the test flight, the craft was already outside and Dennis Mariani came in and told the team to come, making it seem like a last-minute decision.
“instead the craft was already outside and dennis came in come on you guys so it's like it was a last minute thought now that's what makes less sense”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:21:06.9-00:21:15.4 testimony first hand
69
Bob Lazar speculates that he and his colleagues may not have been supposed to know how the craft got out of the hangar at USA, Nevada, S4.
“maybe we're not supposed to know how it got out of the hangar”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:21:29.8-00:21:32.2 opinion first hand
70
Many people have spent a lot of time trying to locate Dennis Mariani because they believe he would know a great deal about the S4 program.
“A lot of people latched on to him, you know, spend a lot of time looking for him. I guess they finally found him, but I mean, for years, people, for some reason, that name really clicked and people went after him because that's, that's really the guy that would know a lot.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:21:47.7-00:22:02.4 testimony first hand
71
Bob Lazar states nobody tried to locate or track down Barry, who trained him and would have had valuable technical information.
“nobody tried to care or track down Barry and, um, he'd be great for technical information. I'd love to know everything Barry knew.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:22:07.3-00:22:17.0 testimony first hand
72
Bob Lazar was concerned that people would focus their anger on Barry and that there would be a price for Barry to pay after Bob Lazar went public.
“What I was really concerned is that Barry would be I mean, they'd focus some of their anger on Barry, you know, that, that he'd have, there'd be a price to pay”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:22:31.7-00:22:43.0 opinion first hand
73
Barry trained Bob Lazar at USA, Nevada, S4.
“because he was training me”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:22:45.1-00:22:46.2 testimony first hand
74
Bob Lazar hinted to Barry that the technology they worked on at USA, Nevada, S4 should not be kept secret, and Barry seemed to silently agree.
“I kind of hinted around to Barry about, you know, wow, this is, all of this shouldn't be kept secret. You know, Barry never really wanted to talk about it, but it seemed like He was, he agreed with me, you know, without saying so.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:23:10.0-00:23:28.0 testimony first hand
75
Bob Lazar hoped Barry would follow him and speak out publicly after Bob Lazar's story came out, but this did not happen.
“I kind of hope that Barry might even follow me, you know, out and, uh, you know, after it was all out, maybe we just suddenly hear another voice from S4. But, uh, no, that was all a pipe dream.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:23:30.6-00:23:42.9 testimony first hand
76
Bob Lazar respects David Grush for coming forward publicly.
“Hats off to that guy. You know, I, I, I respect him for doing that for sure.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:24:41.8-00:24:46.4 opinion first hand
77
Bob Lazar believes that if the same effort put into searching for Dennis Mariani were applied to finding Chuck Payne, people would find him.
“Maybe someone will start looking for him now. I mean, if they put the effort they did into Dennis Mariani, they'll find him.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:26:05.5-00:26:14.5 opinion first hand
78
Luigi Venditelli told Bob Lazar about the governor sharing the same name as Chuck Payne.
“I think Luigi told me that or something.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:26:26.0-00:26:28.0 testimony second hand
79
Chuck Payne was a security guard doing his job at USA, Nevada, S4, and Bob Lazar does not hold ill will towards him.
“there's nothing, I mean, Chuck Payne was doing his job... you can't harbor ill will towards these guys.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:26:46.0-00:26:51.5 opinion first hand
80
During his time working on the program, Bob Lazar and colleagues were given an opaque yellow fluid that tasted like pine sap as part of testing.
“they had you drink this weird, opaque yellow fluid that tastes like pine saw”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:27:26.2-00:27:30.6 testimony first hand
81
Bob Lazar denies that the yellow fluid he was given was part of psychological conditioning meant to make him think his experience was a hallucination.
“No, no, weird hallucination. And that wasn't, no, that, I mean, the thing tasted more like vitamin B than anything.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:27:42.2-00:27:47.9 testimony first hand
82
Bob Lazar was told the yellow fluid was an immune system booster given after a battery of allergen testing because the substances at the facility were of unknown composition and unknown interaction with the human body.
“It was just an immune system booster because they had just done a whole... The grid for allergens... they said, there are just materials here. We have no clue as to what they are or what interactions they have with the human body.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:27:48.5-00:28:02.3 testimony first hand
83
Bob Lazar states his mind was completely clear every time he was at USA, Nevada, S4 and denies that anyone tampered with his head or memory.
“No, they didn't mess with my head. It was a hundred percent clear every single time I was there. There is no doubt.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:28:34.8-00:28:41.4 testimony first hand
84
Bob Lazar states that the program deliberately inserted incorrect and misleading information that was specific to each person, so that if the information leaked they would know who disclosed it.
“the way they screw with you by you know inserting incorrect and misleading information into what they're telling you... it's specific to each person so if they start hearing that from somewhere else they know exactly who said it”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:29:11.7-00:29:26.4 testimony first hand
85
Bob Lazar draws a hard distinction between what he directly worked on, saw, and touched versus what he was told or read, treating only the hands-on material as verified.
“i draw such a hard line between what i work on what i saw what i touched and uh you know what i was told or read so you you never know about any of the reading material you never know about any of the hearsay or anything you're being taught if that's it's real unless it's backed up by by hands-on stuff”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:29:34.2-00:29:53.3 opinion first hand
86
Bob Lazar believes there is a lot of nonsense mixed in with the reading material he was given at USA, Nevada, S4.
“i'm sure there's a lot of nonsense... no that was in there”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:29:54.1-00:29:57.4 opinion first hand
87
Barry mentioned to Bob Lazar the idea that misleading information or red herrings were deliberately introduced to keep a lid on things.
“that's something even Barry mentioned.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:30:12.5-00:30:13.6 hearsay second hand
88
Barry was excited to have Bob Lazar as a new partner and to show him new information, suggesting Barry had previously worked without a partner for some time.
“He really was. He was so what he was so excited to have somebody to work. So it must've been a while. between he had a partner before that because he was so excited to show me.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:30:24.5-00:30:35.4 testimony first hand
89
Bob Lazar and Barry did not discuss the blue documents together, and Bob Lazar does not know whether Barry was briefed on that material.
“Did you guys ever discuss like any of the blue documents stuff together? No. He was, was he briefed on that? I, I don't know.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:30:55.5-00:31:03.5 testimony first hand
90
Bob Lazar's two directives at USA, Nevada, S4 were to duplicate the power and propulsion system using existing materials, and to disable the system from a distance using existing materials, both without budget limits.
“directive one was be able to duplicate this with existing materials and directive to be able to disable this system from a distance with existing materials. No budget limits in either one.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:31:20.7-00:31:35.4 testimony first hand
91
Bob Lazar was allowed to review three briefings during his document readings at USA, Nevada, S4: Galileo, Sidekick, and Looking Glass.
“out of the three briefings that you were allowed to peruse during your document readings, you had Galileo... You had Sidekick... And then you had looking glass”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:31:59.2-00:32:12.8 testimony second hand
92
Bob Lazar considers gravity propulsion to be the most fundamental of the three programmes, since gravity manipulation underlies the other two capabilities and time dilation follows from gravity manipulation.
“Now I'd stick where I was because with gravity, you get time... there's the machine that makes the gravity. So you're part of that. And then you're nowhere unless you can power it.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:32:54.6-00:33:05.8 opinion first hand
93
Bob Lazar does not know whether the gravity propulsion technology has since been successfully used to manipulate or peer into time, stating that if it has, it is being kept well covered.
“I don't know. I mean, you don't see it anywhere. If so, they're keeping it well covered.”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 00:33:38.7-00:33:44.8 opinion first hand
94
Bob Lazar believes there is a fear aspect that discourages people from the program from coming forward, and he leans more towards fear than physical suppression as the explanation.
“There's no doubt there's a fear aspect to it... I would certainly lean more towards fear. I think they just put the fear of God on them”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 157-172 opinion first hand
95
Bob Lazar speculates that if anyone influenced his being hired at USA, Nevada, S4, it was Edward Teller, who told someone to give the young man from USA, New Mexico, Los Alamos a chance.
“if anything it was it was teller... he said hey there's this kid in los alamos and uh to give him a shot or whatever”
Bob Lazar Just Revealed His BIGGEST Secret - DEBRIEFED ep. 87 2026-05-08 448-460 opinion first hand
96
Two of the most contentious names in the UFO field, which instantly cause people to start feuding, are Bob Lazar and Billy Meier.
“there are a few names that you can drop and instantly, you know, people will start feuding. And two of those names are Bob Lazar and Billy Meier.”
Revealing The Nordic Alien Prophecies - Michael Horn | DEBRIEFED ep. 92 2026-06-12 00:03:15.9-00:03:27.8 opinion
97
Bob Lazar pointed out that the Billy Meier sports model, or beam ship, was a one-for-one identical match to craft he was familiar with, and was blown away by it.
“Bob Lazar pointed out, obviously, the sports model or the beam ship, as it's aptly named, that that was a one for one match. That was pretty identical. And Bob was kind of blown away.”
Revealing The Nordic Alien Prophecies - Michael Horn | DEBRIEFED ep. 92 2026-06-12 00:03:39.0-00:03:53.9 testimony second hand
98
Chris Ramsay and Bob Lazar both agree that the later Billy Meier material is questionable.
“Bob and myself both agree, like the later stuff is a little questionable.”
Revealing The Nordic Alien Prophecies - Michael Horn | DEBRIEFED ep. 92 2026-06-12 00:03:53.9-00:03:59.6 opinion
99
The Billy Meier beam ship craft shown to Bob Lazar is an identical physical match to the craft in the 1975 photo, though perhaps not in size.
“knowing that this craft is pretty much identical, if not just in look, but maybe not in size so much, but it is an identical match physically to the other one.”
Revealing The Nordic Alien Prophecies - Michael Horn | DEBRIEFED ep. 92 2026-06-12 00:18:13.0-00:18:29.0 opinion
100
One possible explanation for the matching craft is that the Billy Meier craft was authentic and the craft Bob Lazar was shown was a replica, perhaps a Lockheed Martin deep underground black military project.
“the craft that Bob was shown was like a replica of that, right? Perhaps some Lockheed Martin, deep underground black military project.”
Revealing The Nordic Alien Prophecies - Michael Horn | DEBRIEFED ep. 92 2026-06-12 00:18:57.0-00:19:05.7 opinion
101
Bob Lazar examined material from the Billy Meier UFO contact case.
“this other material that Bob Lazar has looked at and all”
Revealing The Nordic Alien Prophecies - Michael Horn | DEBRIEFED ep. 92 2026-06-12 00:49:25.9-00:49:34.1 administrative
102
Bob Lazar is the only person to have said he worked on the craft itself, at S4 in 1989.
“you only have one Bob Lazar, a guy who actually, you know, at S4 in 1989 said he worked on the craft itself”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:56:25.6-00:56:32.1 testimony second hand
103
Bob Lazar describes the work on recovered craft as parallel engineering rather than reverse engineering, meaning recreating the object by prosaic human means rather than determining exactly how it was made.
“even if you talk to Bob Lazar and you go deep enough with him it's not really reverse engineering it's like parallel engineering it's not figuring out exactly how the thing was made it's figuring out how to recreate the thing with prosaic human means”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:09:21.3-01:09:35.0 testimony second hand
104
Taking Bob Lazar's account at face value, the programme he worked on was at least examining small time perturbations.
“if you take Bob Bazaar face value, they were at least looking at little time perturbations”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:13:37.7-00:13:41.8 opinion first hand
105
Chris Ramsay considers it risky for David Grusch to sit down with UAP Gerb, for the same reason David Grusch would probably not sit down with Bob Lazar: the conversation would stray into material that should not be discussed.
“I feel like it'd be dangerous for Dave Grusch to sit down with you. Same reason Dave Grusch wouldn't probably sit down with Bob Lazar, where it's like you guys are going to talk about some stuff that like literally you shouldn't be talking about.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:30:20.3-00:30:34.1 opinion first hand
106
Chris Ramsay would choose Dan Burisch as a person he would want to interview, followed by Bob Lazar.
“I think Dan Burrish... Dan Burrish would be a big, and obviously, you know, Bob Lazar's up there. I think he's everyone's number one.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:40:36.0-00:40:45.0 opinion first hand
107
Dan Burisch's academic records were erased after his Stony Brook University talk, similarly to the erasure of Bob Lazar's educational records.
“And then afterwards, to have his schooling completely erased, not unlike Bob Lazar, where you can't track them, but we do have this talk that he did at this really prestigious school.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:42:21.2-00:42:35.8 administrative
108
Dan Burisch, by his own account, was recruited into the classified programme by Edward Teller, in the same way that Bob Lazar entered it.
“he also got into the program kind of the same way that Bob did through- Edward Teller... He recruited him. Or according to him.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:42:50.2-00:42:56.3 hearsay second hand
109
A search of the Jeffrey Epstein material returned no results for Bob Lazar, although there were results for the surname Lazar belonging to other people.
“No results under Bob Lazar, but plenty of results under just Lazar.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:46:20.3-00:46:23.2 observation first hand
110
Bob Lazar reported that the non-human intelligence refer to humans as containers.
“if you look at the case of Bob Lazar, he had those haunting words where they call us containers, and then containers of what?”
The Terrible Truth About the Visitors - Whitley Strieber | ep. 96 2026-07-24 00:23:25.8-00:23:32.2 hearsay second hand
111
Chris Ramsay has a picture on his wall of the heart-shaped field around the craft described by Bob Lazar.
“this reminds me of that picture you have on your wall of um the Bob Lazar like the heart-shaped yeah field around the ship”
Non Human Intelligence, GATE Program and Psi Ability with Dr. Julia Mossbridge | ep. 99 2026-08-14 01:37:43.3-01:37:51.1 observation first hand