Brief
James Lacatski
The claims the writer was given for James Lacatski, in the order they were given.
1
When James Lacatski pressed for access to the exotic materials studied under the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program, he was met with harsh rebukes and the door was slammed in his face.
“When Dr. Lacatski began pressing the issue, seeking access to the exotic materials, he was met with harsh rebukes. The door, in essence, was slammed in his face.”
Statement to Congress char:11856-12036 hearsay second hand
2
The Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program was initiated and managed for the Defense Intelligence Agency by veteran intelligence analyst and rocket expert Dr. James Lacatski.
“The man who initiated and managed the program for DIA was a veteran intelligence analyst and rocket expert named Dr. James Lacatski.”
Statement to Congress char:9837-9960 administrative first hand
3
Around 2008, Senator Harry Reid received a letter from a senior US Defense Intelligence Agency scientist, likely a physicist named James Lacatski although he was never publicly named, whose world view had been transformed by events he witnessed at Skinwalker Ranch.
“In about 2008, one of the most powerful politicians in Washington DC, Democrat Senator Harry Reid, received an intriguing letter written by a senior US Defence Intelligence Agency (DIA) scientist (likely a physicist named James Lacatski, although he was never named), whose world view had been transformed by extraordinary events he witnessed at Skinwalker Ranch.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch17:113-470 testimony second hand
4
Jim Lacatski and his team pursued the investigation of anomalous phenomena at Skinwalker Ranch because the science warranted further investigation and they could not rule out a link between the anomalous events and UAP.
“Jim and his team had gone down this path for the simplest reason imaginable: the science warranted further investigation of these strange phenomena, and they could not yet rule out the possibility that these anomalous events and UAP were inextricably linked”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch12:2117-2368 testimony second hand
5
Jay Stratton and Jim Lacatski briefed Luis Elizondo on the Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Application Program (AAWSAP)/Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP) in a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility (SCIF).
“Jay and Jim began briefing me on the program in a SCIF”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch12:245-295 testimony first hand
6
At Jim Lacatski's suggestion, Luis Elizondo used his government computer to search terms including "unknown technology", "unusual performance", "anomaly", "unidentified", "UFO", and "UAP".
“At Jim’s suggestion, I used my government computer to search terms including *unknown technology*, *unusual performance*, *anomaly*, *unidentified*, *UFO*, *UAP*.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch12:2635-2792 testimony first hand
7
James Lacatski and his team ran the United States' official program on Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP), while the Legacy Program was working at cross-purposes to that effort.
“Theoretically, Jim Lacatski and his team ran the US’s official program on UAP, but at the same time the Legacy Program was working at cross-purposes to ours.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch12:45975-46127 opinion first hand
8
As James Lacatski and his contractors circulated Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Application Program (AAWSAP) executive summaries, the email responses received via secure internal servers were unfailingly positive.
“As Jim Lacatski and his contractors circulated executive summaries, the email responses they received via secure internal servers were unfailingly positive.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch12:47290-47437 testimony first hand
9
Within weeks of the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) leadership transition, James Lacatski began spending most of his time defending his efforts instead of conducting research, as senior DIA leadership actively tried to kill the Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Application Program (AAWSAP).
“Within a matter of weeks of the transition, Lacatski began spending most of his time defending his efforts instead of conducting research. The powers that be in the ivory tower now actively tried to kill the program.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch12:47919-48127 testimony first hand
10
If any glimmer of the truth about James Lacatski's work reached a broader report destined for other powerful readers, Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) bureaucrats killed it, filed it away, or ignored it.
“If the slightest glimmer of the truth of Jim’s work got released in a broader report destined for the eyes of others in power, it got kicked upstairs, where DIA’s bureaucrats killed it, filed it away, or ignored it.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch12:48136-48348 testimony first hand
11
Lue Elizondo believed that, as the new member of the Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Application Program (AAWSAP)/Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP) team, the powers that be had targeted James Lacatski and AAWSAP/AATIP for elimination.
“As the new kid, I was certainly not going to tell Jim how to do his job, but I worried the powers that be had bull’s-eyes fixed on Jim and AAWSAP/AATIP.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch12:51505-51651 opinion first hand
12
James Lacatski conceived a chart placing the word God at the top, Angels in the middle, and Humans at the bottom.
“One day I arrived at our group office to find Jim and a couple of the others kicking around ideas for a chart Jim had conceived. At the top he'd typed the word God. At the bottom was Humans. In the middle was Angels.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch13:7013-7227 observation first hand
13
James Lacatski theorised that if the distance between humans and angels is large, an entire ecosystem of divine and semidivine life forms could exist between purely spiritual angels and flesh-and-soul humans.
“Jim theorized that if the distance between humans and angels is large, was it not probable that other beings existed between the purely spiritual angels and the flesh-and-soul creatures known as humans? Was it possible an entire ecosystem of divine and semidivine life forms existed in an invisible ecosystem?”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch13:7692-7991 opinion second hand
14
Luis Elizondo called Michael Higgins and asked him to protect James Lacatski from internal persecution within the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA).
“"Michael, I need you to protect one of our scientists. He is a good man who has done great things for our country, and your agency is trying to persecute him. I need to call in a favor and make sure he is protected from internal DIA forces."”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch16:18562-18794 testimony first hand
15
Michael Higgins agreed to Luis Elizondo's request and said he would look into protecting James Lacatski.
“Michael simply replied, "You got it, Lue. I will look into it."”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch16:18804-18863 testimony first hand
16
Within thirty to forty-five days of Devon Woods's reassignment to the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), the agency's attitude toward the Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Application Program (AAWSAP) work shifted, with higher-ups who had previously welcomed the reports beginning to question why the work was being done.
“Within thirty to forty-five days of my mentor's reassignment to DIA, the atmosphere at the agency changed with respect to our work. Woods brought in colleagues from the CIA. Suddenly the response to Lacatski's well-crafted reports to higher-ups elicited a shift in tone.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch16:6497-6762 observation first hand
17
In the fall of 2009, Luis Elizondo and Jim Semivan attended a meeting with James Lacatski in which they discussed whether the Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Application Program (AAWSAP) should drop investigations widely considered paranormal and instead focus solely on UAP threats.
“I remember a meeting in the fall of 2009 that Jay and I attended with Jim, in which we openly talked about the wisdom of Jim dropping the investigations AAWSAP had gotten involved with that many considered to be dealing with the paranormal and instead focusing solely on UAP threats.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch16:7085-7360 observation first hand
18
James Lacatski's briefing intended for Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) and Department of Defense (DoD) leadership included the terms archangels, angels, demons, and spiritual realm.
“The only problem: the briefing Jim wanted to share with leadership included words like *archangels*, *angels*, *demons*, and *spiritual realm*.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch16:8057-8193 observation first hand
19
James Lacatski believed that research on Skinwalker Ranch was worth pursuing.
“Jim believed with all his core that research on Skinwalker Ranch was worth pursuing.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch16:8947-9022 opinion second hand
20
In the spring of 2010, James Lacatski confided to Luis Elizondo that he was being pressured to stop all Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Application Program (AAWSAP) efforts.
“Sometime after that, in the spring of 2010, Jim confided in me that he was being pressured to stop all efforts.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch16:9218-9321 testimony second hand
21
James Lacatski planned to meet with Deputy Secretary of Defense William J. Lynn in 2010 in an effort to allay concerns about the Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Application Program (AAWSAP).
“He was about to take a meeting with Deputy Secretary of Defense William J. Lynn, hoping he could talk some sense into the deputy secretary and allay any of DoD's fears or concerns.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch16:9330-9501 observation first hand
22
James Lacatski told Luis Elizondo that the Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Applications Program focused on unusual phenomena and investigated unidentified aircraft that display beyond-next-generation technology and capabilities, now called unidentified anomalous phenomena (UAP), previously referred to as UFOs.
“He explained that AAWSAP focused on "unusual phenomena" and investigated unidentified aircraft, specifically ones that seem to display beyond-next-generation technology and capabilities—what we now call unidentified anomalous phenomena, or UAP, or what were long referred to as UFOs.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch9:11397-11675 testimony first hand
23
James Lacatski told Luis Elizondo that for decades civilians, military personnel, and law enforcement officers had reported strange sightings across the world, supported by data from the same intelligence-gathering systems used to protect national security.
“Jim explained that for decades, civilians, military personnel, and law enforcement officers had reported strange sightings across the world, and there was actually data to support what they saw. Data collected by the same intelligence-gathering systems used to keep our country safe from our adversaries, arguably the most advanced in the world.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch9:11681-12020 testimony first hand
24
James Lacatski told Luis Elizondo that the phenomena the program focused on did not conform to physics as currently understood.
“Jim emphasized that what they focused on didn't conform to physics as we understood it.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch9:12027-12111 opinion first hand
25
The Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Applications Program was supported by then-Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency Lieutenant General Michael D. Maples, and was funded through the efforts of Senator Harry Reid (Democrat, Nevada), Senator Ted Stevens (Republican, Alaska), and Senator Daniel Inouye (Democrat, Hawaii).
“This time, Jim shared that the program enjoyed the support of the DIA's then director, Lieutenant General Michael D. Maples, and was funded through the efforts of a bipartisan group of senators: Senator Harry Reid (D-NV), Senator Ted Stevens (R-AK), and Senator Daniel Inouye (D-HI).”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch9:17304-17583 testimony first hand
26
James Lacatski formally asked Luis Elizondo to handle counterintelligence and security for the Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Applications Program.
“In this second meeting, Jim Lacatski formally asked me to handle counterintelligence and security for the program.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch9:19326-19432 administrative first hand
27
Luis Elizondo met James Lacatski at a government office building on the tenth floor in Virginia.
“Finally, in a glass office space along the far wall, I met Dr. James Lacatski.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch9:9093-9162 observation first hand
28
James Lacatski holds a doctorate in engineering and was one of the government's top rocket scientists.
“He was a bona fide rocket scientist, with a doctorate in engineering, and looked every bit the part... I later learned that he was one of our government's top rocket scientists.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch9:9173-9366 administrative first hand
29
James Lacatski told Luis Elizondo that the Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Applications Program worked on sensitive aviation technology and needed a senior counterintelligence agent to protect intel about the program from foreign adversaries.
“In a calm voice, he told me AAWSAP worked on sensitive aviation technology and needed a senior counterintelligence agent to lock down all intel about the program from the usual antagonists, foreign adversaries.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch9:9565-9763 testimony first hand
30
The Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Applications Program was nestled inside the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), a member of the US intelligence community, and drew its authority directly from the United States Congress, according to James Lacatski.
“Nestled deep inside DIA, a member of the US intelligence community (the IC), AAWSAP drew its authority directly from Congress, according to Jim.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch9:9945-10085 testimony first hand
31
Jim Lacatski is a Defense Intelligence Agency rocket scientist who was involved in the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP).
“Jim Lacatski coming out, you know, who is a DIA rocket scientist involved in AAWSAP.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:01:56.5-01:02:01.8 administrative
32
Jim Lacatski writes about the UFO subject as a platonic puzzle, more a mystical object than something physicists would be put against.
“And he writes about it like it's some platonic puzzle. Like it's more of like a mystical object than it is something you'd ever even put throw physicists against.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:02:04.4-01:02:14.5 opinion first hand
33
Whitley Strieber believes Hal Puthoff and James Lacatski refer to technological pieces left by the Non-Human Intelligence and picked up by humans as donations, though he is not certain he has the right scientists.
“they leave what people like, I believe, Hal Puthoff and Jim Lacatski refer to as donations. You know, these technological bits and pieces that we pick up and craft and so forth. They think of them as donations. I might not have the scientists who said that correct, but some important people in this have said that.”
The Terrible Truth About the Visitors - Whitley Strieber | ep. 96 2026-07-24 00:43:37.4-00:43:59.4 hearsay second hand
34
Robert Bigelow's initial motivation for starting the Bigelow Podcast came from the publication of James Lacatski's books in 2023, 2025 and 2026.
“So I think the initial push was some time back with the publishing of Jim McCasky's book in 2023”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:00:42.6-00:00:54.1 testimony first hand
35
All three of James Lacatski's books were briefed and scrubbed by the Pentagon and the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) through the Defense Office of Prepublication and Security Review (DOPSR) process.
“this has been sanctioned, this has been briefed and scrubbed as have all of his books, all three of his books, from the Pentagon and the- ... The DOPSR Process. ... The DIA, yeah, yeah.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:07:46.0-00:07:56.9 administrative first hand
36
In the introduction to his book, James Lacatski wrote that 2021-06-25 was a revolutionary day when the Office of the Director of National Intelligence made the long-awaited announcement that UFOs were real.
“So he writes in the introduction here, on June 25, 2021, was a revolutionary day when the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, ODNI, made the long-awaited announcement that UFOs were real.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:07:57.7-00:08:14.0 administrative second hand
37
James Lacatski wrote that close coordination between Pentagon spokesman Susan Gough and Sean Kirkpatrick became obvious after the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office report on UFOs was released on 2023-01-12.
“there's a close coordination, Lacatski writes, between of the Pentagon spokesman Susan Gao and Kirkpatrick, Dr. Kirkpatrick, became obvious after the AARO Report on UFOs was released on January 12, 2023.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:10:02.3-00:10:16.8 opinion second hand
38
The All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office report on UFOs released on 2023-01-12 was notable for its blandness and lack of detail.
“The report was notable for its blandness and lack of detail”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:10:20.4-00:10:23.4 opinion second hand
39
James Lacatski included paranormal events in the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) because he knew that ancillary events occur that belong in the paranormal category.
“The wisdom of Jim Lacatski was great because he knew that there are ancillary kinds of events that occur that are really paranormal basket kinds of things.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:14:03.6-00:14:15.2 opinion first hand
40
James Lacatski instructed Robert Bigelow's team not to ignore anything that fell outside the UFO genre, and to pursue and run experiments on any other phenomena that mystified them.
“he gave us instructions not to ignore anything that was not just you know UFO uh kind of the genre of of UFOlogy that if we had other kinds of mystifications, things that mystified us, we were to absolutely go down that path and try to do experiments.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:36:31.6-00:36:52.5 testimony first hand
41
Robert Bigelow was unsure the approach from James Lacatski was genuine and had to authenticate him; Lacatski knew this and supplied the means for Bigelow to verify his identity.
“Yeah, I wasn't sure it was real. You know, I had to authenticate him and he knew that. And so he gave me the means to be able to information, be able to authenticate who the hell is this Jim Lacatski guy”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:38:41.8-00:38:52.5 testimony first hand
42
James Lacatski's initial approach to Robert Bigelow came in the form of a letter rather than a phone call.
“George Knapp: Is it a phone call or a letter? Robert Bigelow: I think it was a letter.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:38:54.8-00:38:56.8 testimony first hand
43
In his introductory letter to Robert Bigelow, James Lacatski said he wanted to see Skinwalker Ranch and was already aware of it.
“he introduced himself and he says, uh, I, I think, uh, he wanted to see the Skinwalker ranch and he was, uh, he was aware of it.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:38:58.8-00:39:06.5 testimony first hand
44
James Lacatski's letter mentioned something about securing funding, which prompted Robert Bigelow to contact Harry Reid.
“I think he mentioned something about, um, We need to secure, I'm not sure if he said something about secure funding, but there was something there that caused me to contact Reid, Harry Reid”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:39:13.5-00:39:26.3 testimony first hand
45
Robert Bigelow judged James Lacatski to be legitimate.
“And so this guy, Lacatski, is legitimate.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:39:52.9-00:39:56.0 opinion first hand
46
The Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies (BAASS) papers contain highly sensitive material including personal medical information and the identities of people who work for the government.
“there's a lot of really sensitive stuff in there. Personal medical information. There's the identities of people who work for the government.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:41:50.9-00:41:57.6 observation second hand
47
Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies (BAASS) employed 50 full-time investigators.
“Dr. Lakatsky explained to me your organization, BAASS, you had 50 full-time investigators, 50.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:42:12.7-00:42:18.7 measurement second hand
48
James Lacatski was not always in step with the wider Department of Defense establishment.
“So Jim wasn't always in sync with the whole crowd at the Department of Defense by any means.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:44:52.8-00:45:01.0 observation first hand
49
James Lacatski was a rocket scientist for the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA).
“Jim Lacatski is brilliant in many ways, a rocket scientist for DIA.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:49:44.0-00:49:48.6 administrative
50
James Lacatski wrote up the proposal that became the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) without mentioning UFOs, Skinwalker Ranch or alien technology.
“But his brilliance in writing up the program that became AAWSAP was, you don't mention UFOs. You're not going to mention werewolves or the ranch or alien technology.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:49:49.8-00:50:00.8 testimony first hand
51
James Lacatski and Jay Stratton worked together at the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA).
“They worked together at DIA and they both explained both in their own areas were seeing UFO reports that were startling.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:50:42.5-00:50:49.0 administrative
52
James Lacatski and Jay Stratton were each seeing startling UFO reports in their own areas at the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) and concluded something needed to be done about it.
“they both explained both in their own areas were seeing UFO reports that were startling. They kept seeing them over and over and they thought we need to do something about it.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:50:44.5-00:50:53.2 hearsay second hand
53
After reading Hunt for the Skinwalker, James Lacatski and Jay Stratton concluded that Skinwalker Ranch was a place that could be studied with a reasonable chance of seeing UFOs.
“And then they read Hunt for the Skinwalker and they thought Skinwalker Ranch is a place you could study. where you have a reasonable chance of seeing UFOs”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:50:53.3-00:51:01.4 hearsay second hand
54
James Lacatski sent a letter to Robert Bigelow pitching the idea of studying Skinwalker Ranch.
“and they came to you and pitched this idea so the letter comes in from lakatsky to you yeah”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:51:02.7-00:51:07.5 testimony first hand
55
UFOs were the primary focus of the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP), with everything else treated as fair game because it was connected.
“But we had permission. Everything else was fair game. Because it was connected, too. And Lacatski knew that. It was connected.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:52:11.7-00:52:21.2 testimony first hand
56
James Lacatski travelled to Las Vegas and then flew with Robert Bigelow on Bigelow's aircraft to north-eastern Utah for a tour of Skinwalker Ranch.
“Dr. Lakatsky comes to Las Vegas, you jump on your plane, you fly to Northeastern Utah, and you took him on a little tour.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:53:31.2-00:53:38.1 testimony first hand
57
James Lacatski identified Skinwalker Ranch from the air during the approach to Vernal airport, recognising its mesa and topography from aerial photographs he had studied.
“he's looking out the window and we're coming close you know to to vernal where the airport is ... he said, oh, there's the ranch so he had had aerial photographs to where he knew it visually Yeah, because he spotted the, you know, the mesa and the topography”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:54:00.7-00:54:16.0 observation first hand
58
During James Lacatski's 2008 visit to Skinwalker Ranch, four people were seated around a rectangular table in the dining area of the living room, not in the kitchen, and only James Lacatski was facing towards the kitchen.
“We were in the dining area of the living room around a rectangular table. And there were four of us and Jim was the only one looking into the kitchen.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:55:36.4-00:55:45.4 observation first hand
59
James Lacatski was the only person present who saw the object in the kitchen at Skinwalker Ranch.
“He was the only one that saw it.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:56:11.0-00:56:12.1 observation first hand
60
The object James Lacatski saw at Skinwalker Ranch was floating above the floor at about the height of a sink countertop.
“And what he saw floating above the floor, about sink countertop high,”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:56:13.0-00:56:18.6 hearsay second hand
61
According to what James Lacatski described to Robert Bigelow, the object he saw at Skinwalker Ranch was metal-looking and tubular, resembling the imagery of the album Tubular Bells.
“was a metal-looking object that was tubular. like in the music album, Tubular Bells.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:56:20.2-00:56:27.2 hearsay second hand
62
James Lacatski said nothing about the sighting while at Skinwalker Ranch and only raised it on the return flight, asking Robert Bigelow whether he had seen anything.
“but on the flight back, and he said, did you, on the flight, he said, did you see anything? I said, no.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:56:38.9-00:56:45.0 testimony first hand
63
Over a period of time James Lacatski gradually disclosed to Robert Bigelow everything he had seen at Skinwalker Ranch, describing it in as much detail as he could.
“so over a period of time he loosened up more and more and more and finally divulged everything about what he saw and described it in detail as much as he could.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:57:01.0-00:57:13.4 testimony first hand
64
Robert Bigelow considers the display James Lacatski witnessed at Skinwalker Ranch to have been customised for him.
“So it really sunk into him and it was customized.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:57:55.1-00:57:57.6 opinion first hand
65
James Lacatski was the first government employee to become an experiencer at Skinwalker Ranch, ahead of the other government personnel who later visited.
“he was an experiencer right off the bat as a government employee in addition to all the other people, all the other government people that showed up. And so Jim was the first one.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:58:02.6-00:58:16.2 testimony first hand
66
After his Skinwalker Ranch visit James Lacatski returned to Washington DC, drafted the outline of a programme, described it to Robert Bigelow, who then contacted Harry Reid, leading to the creation of the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP).
“And then he goes back to D.C., he designs the outline of a program, he tells it to you, you call Reid, and then AAWSAP is born.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:58:24.8-00:58:32.4 testimony first hand
67
Robert Bigelow pursued his own approach to gaining unacknowledged special access program (USAP) status, without mentioning it to James Lacatski or anyone else.
“So I didn't even mention it to Lacatski or to anybody, but I had my own approach to becoming SAP-ed, to being an unacknowledged special access program.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:00:49.5-01:01:02.3 testimony first hand