Brief

Jesse Mitchells

The claims the writer was given for Jesse Mitchells, in the order they were given.

Claims 327

Checked by a person 0 confirmed as belonging here, 327 not yet read

1
Jesse Michaels attended the Monroe Institute prior to 2024-11-13.
“Ever since I got back from the Monroe Institute, take this as you will, but 11-11 has been showing up once a day at least”
UAPs in Washington - I wasn't supposed to be there.. 2024-11-24 00:02:03.6-00:02:10.7 administrative first hand
2
David Grush testified before the United States Congress in the summer of 2023 as a UFO whistleblower.
“David Grush, UFO whistleblower, who testified before Congress last year, summer of last year.”
UAPs in Washington - I wasn't supposed to be there.. 2024-11-24 00:05:18.3-00:05:23.3 administrative first hand
3
The United States government has been conducting covert reverse-engineering programs on Unidentified Flying Objects (UFO) for approximately 70 to 80 years.
“He made some pretty crazy claims, which is that the US has been engaging in covert reverse engineering UFO programs for the last 70, 80 years.”
UAPs in Washington - I wasn't supposed to be there.. 2024-11-24 00:05:23.6-00:05:31.1 hearsay second hand
4
Jesse Michaels's YouTube channel received a strike after the video featuring David Grush was taken down.
“And not just that it got taken down and then you got a strike on your channel, which is like yeah That feels like that's so extreme.”
UAPs in Washington - I wasn't supposed to be there.. 2024-11-24 00:06:08.4-00:06:16.0 administrative first hand
5
Sean considers Jesse Michaels to be the most important voice in the UFO domain, describing him as more thorough in research and more multidisciplinary than others in the field.
“Jesse's the most important voice in the UFO domain right now. There's nobody that researches deeper than him. There's nobody that has the multidisciplinary approach that he has.”
UAPs in Washington - I wasn't supposed to be there.. 2024-11-24 00:17:51.3-00:18:00.4 opinion first hand
6
Cult creation around a single contactee, typically involving a prophecy of an event within the next few years, is a recurring pattern in ufology.
“The cult creation seems to be this thing in UFOlogy where like you have this one kind of contactee, you know, and around that person is created this sort of mythology and... often there's a prophecy involved”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:09:53.3-00:10:09.2 opinion first hand
7
Louis Jolyon West was one of the architects of Project MKUltra.
“Jolly West, do you know who that is? He was one of the architects of, uh, MKUltra”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:11:37.5-00:11:41.1 administrative first hand
8
Louis Jolyon West was head of the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA) Department of Psychiatry in Los Angeles.
“he was the head of UCLA psychiatry out in LA actually”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:11:41.7-00:11:44.4 administrative first hand
9
There are theories that Louis Jolyon West might have brainwashed Charles Manson.
“And now there are all these theories that he might have brainwashed Charles Manson.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:11:45.5-00:11:49.3 hearsay
10
Louis Jolyon West was strongly interested in cult creation.
“But his whole thing was he was really interested in cult creation.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:11:50.7-00:11:53.8 administrative first hand
11
Philip Zimbardo conducted the Stanford Prison Experiment at Stanford University.
“And Philip Zimbardo at Stanford with the Stanford Prison Experiments, very similar.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:11:54.9-00:11:59.6 administrative first hand
12
Jesse Michels considers that psychology research of the Project MKUltra era, much of it probably state funded, was extremely interested in the creation of cults because cults are inherently subversive organisations.
“A lot of the psychology that was probably state funded at the time was, it was extremely interested in the, uh, creation of cults, because as you're saying, those are kind of inherently subversive organizations.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:12:00.0-00:12:11.1 opinion first hand
13
Doug Coe was one of the leaders of The Family (The Fellowship) in the 1980s and held a prayer breakfast which all of the presidents would attend.
“This guy, Doug Coe was the, one of the leaders of the family in the eighties and he would hold this prayer breakfast... And all of the presidents would have to attend the prayer breakf”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:20:24.8-00:20:33.8 administrative first hand
14
Shawn Ryan and Tucker Carlson describe the Unidentified Flying Object (UFO) phenomenon as spiritual and demonic.
“you'll hear like, um, you know, Shawn Ryan and Tucker Carlson and like, we think it's spiritual. We think it's demonic.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:20:53.1-00:20:57.9 hearsay second hand
15
Angel hierarchies and taxonomies exist in the writings of Thomas Aquinas and other historical figures.
“Like you do have these, you know, angel hierarchies and taxonomies from St. Thomas Aquinas and, you know, people historically.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:21:05.7-00:21:11.2 testimony first hand
16
Jesse Michels challenges those who say aliens are simply angels or demons to define what an angel or a demon actually is, holding that the terms carry heavy connotation without clear meaning.
“that doesn't that just has like a big you know kind of a lot of baggage attached to it has a connotation attached to it but what does that actually mean would be my kind of challenge to those people”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:21:13.4-00:21:23.7 opinion first hand
17
Jesse Michels equally challenges people who insist angels and demons have nothing to do with the Unidentified Flying Object (UFO) conversation, considering that framework an important possible overlay.
“i would have a kind of equal and opposite challenge to the people who say that angels and demons definitely have nothing to do with the conversation”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:21:24.7-00:21:32.3 opinion first hand
18
The Lindy effect holds that how long an idea has survived indicates its value to society and also determines its expected future age.
“the concept of Lindy, like, which is, you know, um, how long an idea has survived is basically it's kind of valued to society. And it's also determined it's expected future age.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:21:37.3-00:21:48.5 testimony first hand
19
Jesse Michels considers the works of Plato and the Bible probably more valuable than recent contemporary works, by the Lindy effect measure of how long an idea has survived.
“And so Plato and the Bible are probably more valuable than like, I don't know the pet shop boys or something, you know, some like random contemporary thing.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:21:48.9-00:21:58.4 opinion first hand
20
Angels and demons have existed as concepts for thousands of years, and among their traditional attributes are playing tricks on people and smelling of sulphur.
“angels and demons have existed for thousands of years... they play tricks on you or whatever. And they, they smell like sulfur.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:22:06.6-00:22:14.3 testimony first hand
21
Some traditional attributes of angels and demons appear to Jesse Michels to match attributes of the Unidentified Flying Object (UFO) phenomenon.
“Like there are all these different like attributes of them. And some of the attributes seem to match up with some of these things.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:22:16.0-00:22:22.1 opinion first hand
22
Jacques Vallee advises constant experiencers and abductees that they should want to get rid of the phenomenon contacting them.
“Like you talk to Jacques Vallée, he'll be like, yeah, like you, you want to get rid of this thing. If, if you know you, if you're, you know, a constant experience or an abductee or whatever.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:22:22.2-00:22:32.1 hearsay second hand
23
Jacques Vallee often talks about fallen angels in connection with the Unidentified Flying Object (UFO) phenomenon.
“Um, and he often talks about fallen angels himself.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:22:33.2-00:22:35.6 hearsay second hand
24
Jesse Michels considers it worth inquiring whether a Joseph Campbell style common underpinning exists across religions, in which there is always a consciousness chain between man and God.
“Well, I think it would be fascinating to somehow find some common Joseph Campbell style underpinning between the religions where there's always some consciousness chain between man and God.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:23:47.6-00:23:59.6 opinion first hand
25
Hinduism has the devas and Islam has the jinn as intermediary conscious beings between man and God, and a religion lacking such intermediaries is close to an exception to the rule.
“And so you have the devas, you know, in Hinduism, you have, um, you know, the jinn and Islam, like it's almost the exception to the rule to find a religion where there isn't consciousness between man and God.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:24:00.6-00:24:12.4 testimony first hand
26
Jesse Michels considers Christianity to have scaled better and had a more charismatic, helpful effect for more people than other mythologies, and does not know why.
“Christianity for whatever reason seems to have this. You know, charismatic, very helpful effect for like more people, like it's scaled better than a lot of these other things. And then you have to ask why, and I don't know.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:24:58.8-00:25:10.2 opinion first hand
27
Jesse Michels considers the social contagion forming around the Unidentified Flying Object (UFO) subject to be itself grounds for scepticism.
“if you have this almost like social contagion around the thing, you almost have to be skeptical of that as well.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:30:55.8-00:31:01.7 opinion first hand
28
Jesse Michels regards UFO disclosure as a personal process an individual goes through rather than a line in the sand, and views expecting a set of released government documents to provide meaning as a ceding of one's own spiritual authority.
“realize that, quote unquote, disclosure is just a personal process. It's just something that an individual goes through themselves. It's not some line in the sand. It's actually some sort of seeding of one's own spiritual authority to some other group”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:31:03.2-00:31:16.5 opinion first hand
29
Jesse Michels wants Donald Trump to release Unidentified Flying Object (UFO) documents because the second-order effects would move the Overton window, let young people ask these questions, and allow the subject to be taught in academic settings.
“it'll move The Overton Window and, you know, you'll have young people able to ask these questions. You know, these things can be taught in academic settings. All of those things would be amazing second order effects of Trump releasing documents.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:31:29.2-00:31:40.9 opinion first hand
30
Jesse Michels considers it insane to expect UFO disclosure to give someone meaning in their life.
“But the idea that that's somehow going to like give, you know, somebody meaning in their life is insane.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:31:42.0-00:31:47.5 opinion first hand
31
Jesse Michels considers that government officials who make offhand remarks about a hybrid breeding programme or a base sighting are acting from cynical or opportunistic motivation and do not know anything about the Unidentified Flying Object (UFO) subject.
“some government official who's clearly doesn't even think about UFOs will make some offhand remark about some, you know, a hybrid breeding program or like a certain base... that person doesn't know anything. They're doing the thing because of their own cynical, you know, motivation.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:32:05.4-00:32:21.8 opinion first hand
32
Jesse Michels holds that there is nothing to disclose because the government may have an asymmetric data set but has no monopoly on how the world works or on metaphysics.
“There's nothing to disclose because the government, they might have an asymmetric data set, but they don't have some, you know, monopoly on, you know, how the world works. That's just, or metaphysics or something.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:33:19.7-00:33:31.8 opinion first hand
33
William Neal McCasland is a general who ran the Air Force Research Laboratory (AFRL) at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, the laboratory where the Roswell wreckage was rumoured to have been taken.
“Neil McCasland, uh, is a general who ran the lab where the Roswell wreckage was rumored to have been taken at Wright Patterson. And he ran the, the, the air force research laboratory.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:33:42.2-00:33:55.7 administrative first hand
34
Tom DeLonge is the frontman of the band Blink-182.
“And then Tom DeLonge is the blink one 82 front man.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:33:56.8-00:33:59.2 administrative first hand
35
The cargo cult phenomenon described in the material Tom DeLonge sent to his Lockheed Martin Skunk Works contact occurred in French Polynesia.
“Jesse Michels: In French Polynesia. Jason Samosa: French Polynesia, there you go.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:37:09.8-00:37:12.3 testimony first hand
36
John Podesta was Hillary Clinton's campaign chief of staff.
“And Podesta is Clinton's chief of staff.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:40:20.0-00:40:21.5 administrative
37
The r/UFOs subreddit grew from a few hundred thousand members to about four million over roughly ten years.
“why is the subreddit of ufos grown from a few hundred thousand to you know four million uh over the course of 10 years”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:41:50.0-00:41:56.8 measurement first hand
38
Jesse Michels has very little doubt about Tom DeLonge's sincerity, intelligence and long-standing organic interest in the UFO topic.
“i have personally very little doubt of uh Tom deLonge's sincerity and his intelligence and actually a long interest and his standing interest and organically in the topic”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:42:13.9-00:42:25.1 opinion first hand
39
Jesse Michels considers there to have been a confluence between Tom DeLonge's organic interest in UFOs and people in government wanting to do something on the subject.
“But it also seems like there was a confluence between that organic interest on his part and then like people in the government wanting to do something on UFOs.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:42:30.6-00:42:40.4 opinion first hand
40
Jesse Michels regards Richard Nixon as a political outsider, citing his origins in Whittier, California, his chip on his shoulder, and his wish to force a reduction in the CIA.
“I think of Nixon as kind of an outsider. ... From Whittier, California chip on his shoulder was wanting to do forced reduction in the CIA.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:47:09.8-00:47:17.7 opinion first hand
41
The CIA was always against Richard Nixon and he was ousted in a very artificial way, in Jesse Michels's view.
“He was always against him and was ousted. I think in a very artificial way.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:47:18.4-00:47:22.4 opinion first hand
42
George H. W. Bush was without doubt an establishment insider, in Jesse Michels's view.
“George H.W. Bush, for sure, insider. No doubt about that.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:47:27.4-00:47:31.2 opinion first hand
43
Ronald Pandolfi came out of the CIA's Weird Desk, in Jesse Michels's understanding.
“who is, I think, out of the CIA's Weird Desk.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:47:42.2-00:47:44.8 opinion first hand
44
Ronald Pandolfi advised Bill Clinton that he should be briefed by Bruce Maccabee, a longtime civilian UFO researcher who had written a book about UFOs and the FBI.
“Ron Pandolfi told Clinton he should get briefed by a guy named Bruce Maccabee who had written about a book about UFOs and the FBI was a longtime civilian researcher.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:47:46.2-00:47:56.5 testimony first hand
45
Laurance Rockefeller was very close with the Clintons and constantly tried to interest them in UFO disclosure.
“And Laurance Rockefeller, uh, is very close with the Clintons and trying to get them to do disclosure, get them more interested constantly.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:48:25.7-00:48:33.4 testimony first hand
46
A photograph shows Hillary Clinton, apparently at Camp David, holding the book "Are We Alone?" by University of Arizona physicist Paul Davies.
“There's a photo of Hillary Clinton, and I think she's at camp David and she's holding a book and it's a book by, uh, university of Arizona physicist, Paul Davies. And the book is titled, Are We Alone?”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:48:40.1-00:48:52.6 testimony second hand
47
Barack Obama is producing a documentary about the Betty and Barney Hill abduction.
“I mean, he's producing this Betty and Barney Hill documentary.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:51:23.5-00:51:26.5 testimony first hand
48
On James Corden's programme, Barack Obama said there are things in the sky that cannot be identified and are not understood.
“I think on James Corden, he goes, there are things in our sky that, you know, we can identify and we don't know what they are.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:51:36.5-00:51:42.2 hearsay second hand
49
In a recent podcast appearance Donald Trump said aliens are real, and the interviewer did not follow up on the statement.
“he sort of provoked Trump in many ways and said, you know, it's not like they're, you know, aliens are real. But like, how do you know that, sir? You know, the interviewer never followed up on that. But he said they are real.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:51:45.4-00:51:57.5 hearsay second hand
50
Barack Obama publicly dismissed as a myth the idea that beings are held captive in a basement at Area 51.
“And then he goes on to talk about, you know, Area 51 and how that, you know, that's a myth, the idea that we have them like, you know, chained up in the basement or whatever.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:52:01.5-00:52:09.8 hearsay second hand
51
Barack Obama's UFO remarks were a deliberately phrased and staged litmus test of public reaction, conducted with a friendly left-wing interviewer in a rapid-fire question format, in Jesse Michels's view.
“it was so clearly this litmus test. It was like this, like, let's see how the public reacts. ... he phrased it the way he did deliberately to begin with. The whole thing was staged with this very friendly, you know, very left wing interviewer”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:52:30.2-00:52:39.0 opinion first hand
52
Barack Obama walked back his UFO comments afterwards, saying he knew nothing the public did not know and framing the matter in terms of the Fermi paradox and the number of solar systems.
“Because he then walked it back and was like, you know, really? You know, I don't know anything you don't know. You know, I just think that it was like, you know, some Fermi paradox thing, given the amount of, you know, solar systems, you know, there's the likelihood or whatever.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:52:36.0-00:52:49.9 hearsay second hand
53
John Brennan was Barack Obama's CIA director and James Clapper was his director of national intelligence.
“Obama's uh, CIA director, uh, you know, Brennan and his, uh, director of national intelligence, James Clapper”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:53:13.6-00:53:20.2 administrative
54
John Brennan and James Clapper appear in a documentary film and tacitly endorse the idea that UFOs are real.
“Brennan and his, uh, director of national intelligence, James Clapper are showing up in a movie and they are tacitly endorsing the idea that not only have we, you know, are UFOs real”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:53:16.7-00:53:27.5 testimony first hand
55
James Clapper personally talked about having helped set up UFO tracking programmes at Area 51.
“we've had tracking programs at area 51, which James Clapper personally talked about helped set up”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:53:28.5-00:53:33.9 hearsay second hand
56
John Brennan and James Clapper tacitly endorse in a documentary film the idea that a multi-generational legacy programme has conducted crash retrieval and reverse engineering operations for decades.
“are tacitly endorsing the idea that we've had a legacy program doing crash retrieval operations and, you know, uh, reverse engineering for decades, multi-generational.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:53:35.9-00:53:44.2 testimony first hand
57
The UFO programmes discussed openly consist of those in the 2017 New York Times article on the Pentagon UFO program, what Barack Obama discussed and investigated, and what Harry Reid set up from 2007 to 2012.
“the things that are talked about openly at this point are in that 2017 New York Times article. They're what Obama was, you know, talking about and investigating. It's what Harry Reid set up from 2007 to 2012.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:54:41.7-00:54:54.7 testimony first hand
58
The Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) later turned into the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP), a slimmer follow-on programme.
“This AAWSAP program, which then turned into sort of this AATIP overhang program, which seemed a lot slimmer”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:54:55.4-00:55:02.9 testimony first hand
59
Under the Kona Blue proposal, assets were to be transferred from Lockheed Martin, which held UFO material, to Bigelow Aerospace.
“Kona Blue, and this idea that we were transferring assets between Lockheed Martin, who had UFO material to Bigelow aerospace”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:55:12.6-00:55:18.8 testimony first hand
60
The budget associated with the publicly known Pentagon UFO programmes was about 22 million United States dollars.
“We're talking about $22 million.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:55:25.4-00:55:26.6 measurement first hand
61
A single F-35 Lightning II fighter jet costs 85 million United States dollars.
“A single F-35 fighter jet is $85 million.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:55:27.2-00:55:31.7 measurement first hand
62
A single B-2 Spirit stealth bomber costs over one billion United States dollars.
“A B-2 stealth bomber is over a billion dollars. A single B-2 stealth bomber.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:55:32.2-00:55:37.4 measurement first hand
63
Jesse Michels considers a 22 million United States dollar budget nonsensical as the funding for reverse engineering a recovered craft.
“And you're putting $22 million against that, the reverse engineering of that makes zero sense.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:55:56.1-00:56:01.5 opinion first hand
64
Jesse Michels believes the legacy programme David Grusch described probably involves hundreds of billions, if not trillions, of United States dollars spent on reverse engineering recovered craft.
“this legacy program, this like, you know, probably hundreds of billions, if not trillions of dollars going into actually reverse engineering this stuff”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:56:08.2-00:56:17.6 opinion first hand
65
Bob Lazar is the only person to have said he worked on the craft itself, at S4 in 1989.
“you only have one Bob Lazar, a guy who actually, you know, at S4 in 1989 said he worked on the craft itself”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 00:56:25.6-00:56:32.1 testimony second hand
66
Jesse Michels and his editor travelled to Aztec, New Mexico to investigate the reported crash there.
“my editors here with me and we both went to Aztec, New Mexico to investigate the crash there.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:00:51.2-01:00:55.4 testimony first hand
67
Jesse Michels entered the Aztec, New Mexico investigation sceptical and came away fairly sure a crash occurred there.
“I came in skeptical and I came out pretty sure that there was a crash there”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:01:00.2-01:01:04.5 opinion first hand
68
Jesse Michels previously suspected a conflation between an anti-gravity exotic propulsion lineage possibly created in Nazi Germany or during World War II and reports of alien craft.
“i thought you know there was a conflation maybe going on between kind of some anti-gravity lineage of you know some exotic propulsion that maybe uh was created in nazi germany or you know maybe world war ii and then ... they conflate it with these alien things”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:01:10.8-01:01:26.2 opinion first hand
69
After investigating several reported crashes, Jesse Michels concluded the crashes are real.
“And after investigating a few of these crashes, I think the crashes are just real.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:01:35.9-01:01:39.7 opinion first hand
70
Jesse Michels considers that because the United States Air Force and the CIA always seem to be involved in reported crash cases, reverse engineering of the recovered pieces must be taking place.
“if there's U.S. Air Force and CIA involvement, which like there always seems to be ... then like there has to be reverse engineering going on of those pieces.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:01:44.0-01:01:53.3 opinion first hand
71
Jim Lacatski is a Defense Intelligence Agency rocket scientist who was involved in the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP).
“Jim Lacatski coming out, you know, who is a DIA rocket scientist involved in AAWSAP.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:01:56.5-01:02:01.8 administrative
72
Jim Lacatski writes about the UFO subject as a platonic puzzle, more a mystical object than something physicists would be put against.
“And he writes about it like it's some platonic puzzle. Like it's more of like a mystical object than it is something you'd ever even put throw physicists against.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:02:04.4-01:02:14.5 opinion first hand
73
There were no physicists on the Pentagon UFO programme, according to Eric Davis.
“And you have the idea, you know, Eric Davis saying there were no physicists on the program.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:02:15.1-01:02:18.9 testimony second hand
74
Jesse Michels is sympathetic to the idea that humanity exists within a control system and that UFOs might be von Neumann replicator envoys of a larger intelligence.
“I'm sympathetic to ideas like that, that we're in some sort of control system or something. And, uh, these might be von Neumann replicator envoys or something of some like larger intelligence.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:03:05.6-01:03:19.0 opinion first hand
75
Jesse Michels considers grey aliens to have a robotic, droid-like mandate, showing up, saying do not fear, inserting a thing and subduing the witness, which feels automated.
“even gray aliens, which seem to have this very robotic droid, like kind of mandate. where they show up and they go do not fear do not fear and they insert the thing and they kind of subdue you or whatever like all of that feels somewhat automated”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:03:22.5-01:03:35.8 opinion first hand
76
Jesse Michels considers Jacques Vallee an incredible godfather of the field who shifts one's perspective in a healthy way, but finds what Vallee shares very limited.
“even the Vallee stuff as much, I think he's this like incredible godfather and he shifts your perspective in this super healthy way, but he's so limited.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:03:54.8-01:04:02.9 opinion first hand
77
Skywatcher is a modern version of programmes that attempt to summon UFOs, and such summoning work has been carried out for some time within special access programmes.
“you have these summoning programs of UFOs, like Skywatcher is this kind of modern version of this or whatever. But it seems like we've been doing this kind of in, you know, special access programs for a while.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:06:32.5-01:06:42.8 opinion first hand
78
Jesse Michels considers the breakdown of the observer-observed dichotomy and of any objective theory of everything to amount to an epistemological revolution rather than a scientific one.
“I think the observer-observed dichotomy is breaking down ... I think it's an epistemological revolution. It's not a scientific revolution.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:08:16.4-01:08:21.1 opinion first hand
79
Bob Lazar describes the work on recovered craft as parallel engineering rather than reverse engineering, meaning recreating the object by prosaic human means rather than determining exactly how it was made.
“even if you talk to Bob Lazar and you go deep enough with him it's not really reverse engineering it's like parallel engineering it's not figuring out exactly how the thing was made it's figuring out how to recreate the thing with prosaic human means”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:09:21.3-01:09:35.0 testimony second hand
80
Jesse Michels is interested in Thomas Townsend Brown and his anti-gravity research.
“I'm obsessed with, you know, Thomas Townsend Brown and his anti-gravity research.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:09:56.6-01:09:59.5 testimony first hand
81
Thomas Townsend Brown appears to have been inspired by so-called space brothers, that is non-human intelligences.
“And it seems like he was inspired by quote unquote, space brothers.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:10:00.8-01:10:03.4 opinion first hand
82
Thomas Townsend Brown took part in a crash retrieval operation in 1958 in Hartford, Connecticut.
“He actually engaged in a crash retrieval operation in 19. ... In 1958 in Hartford, Connecticut”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:10:04.0-01:10:06.9 testimony second hand
83
Thomas Townsend Brown went on to Operation Moonwatch, a satellite viewing operation.
“And then he goes to, um, moonwalk project moon, watch, which was the satellite viewing operation.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:10:13.4-01:10:18.5 testimony first hand
84
Operation Moonwatch was tied in with Project Blue Book at the time.
“They were tied in actually with blue book at the time”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:10:19.0-01:10:20.8 testimony first hand
85
Robert Friend and J. Allen Hynek held a piece of the material from the 1958 Hartford, Connecticut crash.
“Robert friend and J. Allen Hynek, uh, have a piece of this crash at Hartford, Connecticut.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:10:21.7-01:10:26.7 testimony first hand
86
Thomas Townsend Brown flashed his credentials and took the material from the 1958 Hartford, Connecticut crash.
“And Townsend Brown flashes his credentials. I think he was very spooky. And he was like, I'm taking this material.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:10:27.6-01:10:33.7 testimony first hand
87
Thomas Townsend Brown claimed he was communicating with aliens much of the time.
“No, he's claimed he was like kind of communicating with aliens half the time”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:10:55.6-01:10:58.9 hearsay second hand
88
Agnew Bahnson funded Thomas Townsend Brown and appeared to be in contact with the phenomenon himself, in Jesse Michels's assessment.
“like Agnew Bahnson, he was funding him was really trippy and seemed like he was in contact with stuff.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:10:59.2-01:11:03.0 opinion first hand
89
Hermann Oberth is the godfather of German rocketry and was Wernher von Braun's mentor.
“Hermann Oberth is the godfather of, you know, German rocketry and Wernher von Braun's mentor.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:11:24.6-01:11:30.8 administrative
90
Audio exists of Hermann Oberth speaking about UFOs, in which he said that German rocketry was aided and had help.
“And there's even audio of him talking about UFOs. And he said they were aided and had help.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:11:31.8-01:11:36.8 testimony third hand
91
Takano Joseon, a man in Japan, met Hermann Oberth and discussed UFOs openly with him.
“And I was just in Japan, actually. And there's a guy named Takano Joseon. And he met Hermann Oberth and they discussed UFOs openly.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:11:37.4-01:11:45.6 testimony second hand
92
In a 1952 interview with a French newspaper, Richard Miethe said that UFOs seen in the sky are probably the craft he designed and built, via the Skoda Works under Hans Kammler.
“Mita in 52 gives this interview to this French paper. And he says, if you see UFOs in the sky, they're probably the ones that I designed and built by, you know, the Habermal project and, you know, um, uh, Skoda works under Hans Kammler.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:13:04.2-01:13:20.4 testimony third hand
93
Rudolf Schriever said that in 1944 a disc-shaped craft was finally flown and rose to approximately 12,000 metres in a few minutes.
“And you have Rudolph Schriever and I think, you know, saying that in 1944, we finally flew this craft and it rose to, you know, 40,000 feet in a few minutes.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:13:21.8-01:13:31.5 testimony second hand
94
In an apocryphal account, John Warner IV recounted that over a third martini Paul Mellon told him he and Allen Dulles had been on a technology retrieval operation in Nazi Germany around 1944 or 1945, standing atop a huge saucer-like UFO in Czechoslovakia.
“I think you even have an apocryphal story where Paul Mellon ... And he talks about, he said he's on his third martini with Paul Mellon. And Paul Mellon tells him that he and Allen Dulles were on this like, you know, tech retrieval operation deep in, you know, post-World War II, you know, Nazi Germany, or maybe it was like '44, '45. And they're saying that they're standing atop this huge saucer-like UFO in Czechoslova”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:13:32.6-01:14:03.2 hearsay third hand
95
Paul Mellon was one of the founders of the CIA, and his grandson is John Warner IV.
“Paul Mellon, who's one of, you know, founders of the CIA, his grandson is a guy named John Warner IV”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:13:35.0-01:13:40.3 administrative
96
Pilsen is a city in the Czech Republic where the Skoda Works was located.
“which is Pilsen, which is where Skoda Works took place.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:14:07.0-01:14:10.0 administrative
97
At the end of World War II the United States was less interested in Berlin than in reaching Pilsen, where Nazi Germany's secret weapons programme was housed.
“For whatever reason, the U.S. was less interested in Berlin than they were in going to Pilsen, which is where this secret weapons program was housed for Nazi Germany.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:14:15.4-01:14:23.7 opinion first hand
98
Jesse Michels considers that Sekret Machines contains a mixture of truth and fiction.
“And I do think Sekret Machines hit a lot of truth and fiction.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:16:23.8-01:16:28.1 opinion first hand
99
Sekret Machines was inspired by conversations with General William Neal McCasland.
“And it was inspired by conversations with General Neil McCasland”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:16:28.8-01:16:31.5 testimony first hand
100
William Neal McCasland has gone missing from his home in New Mexico.
“who, by the way, is now missing, which is crazy. He went, missing, you know, from his home in New Mexico.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:16:32.0-01:16:38.7 testimony
101
William Neal McCasland was one of the few sources for modern UFO disclosure and for much of what came out of Tom DeLonge's work.
“one of the few sources for, uh, kind of modern disclosure and a lot of, you know, what came out of, you know, Tom DeLonge's work”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:16:46.8-01:16:54.7 opinion first hand
102
William Neal McCasland disappeared without a trace, leaving behind his phone and everything that could be used to track him, and taking a gun.
“missing without a trace in a super sophisticated way, leaves his phone behind everything that you could use to track him, you know, is, is just, you know, left behind and he takes a gun.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:17:06.2-01:17:17.4 testimony
103
Ben Rich was president of Lockheed Martin Skunk Works in the 1990s and was responsible for modern stealth aircraft.
“Ben Rich also, who is the, you know, Skunk Works guy, you know, in the 90s, president of Skunk Works, who is responsible for, you know, the SR-71 and, or sorry, he was responsible for modern stealth aircraft.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:17:26.5-01:17:38.5 administrative
104
Ben Rich wrote about an international corporate board of directors that deals with the UFO issue.
“He writes about an international corporate board of directors that deals with the UFO issue.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:17:39.9-01:17:45.1 testimony second hand
105
Thomas Townsend Brown encountered the Caroline Group, an international group of industrialists that appeared to absorb exotic technology.
“And then Townsend Brown also runs into this sort of, you know, the Caroline group, this international group of industrialists that seem to suck up all of the exotic tech.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:17:46.2-01:17:55.9 testimony
106
The Maynard Consortium of Sekret Machines is described very similarly to the international corporate board Ben Rich wrote about and to the Caroline Group encountered by Thomas Townsend Brown.
“And so, and then you have Sekret Machines, the Maynard consortium, which is described very similarly to those two things.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:17:57.0-01:18:02.9 opinion first hand
107
The Business Plot was an attempt to remove Franklin D. Roosevelt from office, exposed by Smedley Butler.
“Smedley Butler. Yeah. Yeah. They were trying to take out FDR.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:20:31.1-01:20:33.7 testimony
108
Prescott Bush was president of the Union Banking Corporation, which was funding the Nazis.
“The union bank was funding the Nazis. Which one's the union bank? Um, they, I think Prescott Bush was the, you know, president of the union bank.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:21:11.2-01:21:18.9 testimony
109
Allen Dulles helped with Nazi financing while based in Switzerland during World War II.
“And then Dulles was, you know, helping out with, you know, some Nazi financing. ... Hanging out in Switzerland.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:21:19.2-01:21:23.8 testimony
110
Peter Dale Scott invented the term deep state and writes about the Kennedy assassination.
“Peter Dale, Scott, is he the guy who writes about JFK stayed and yeah. / invented the term deep state.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:26:46.2-01:26:51.5 administrative
111
Detlev Bronk was president of the Rockefeller Foundation.
“Detlev Bronk was the president of the Rockefeller Foundation”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:29:42.3-01:29:44.5 administrative
112
Detlev Bronk was rumoured to have been a member of Majestic 12 and to have conducted the early alien autopsies.
“He was rumored to be on the Majestic 12, rumored to do all the early alien autopsies.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:29:47.6-01:29:51.4 hearsay
113
Detlev Bronk was president of the medical school at Johns Hopkins.
“President of the medical school at Johns Ho”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:29:53.1-01:29:54.3 administrative
114
William Stephenson was very close with Thomas Townsend Brown.
“William Stevenson was very close with Thomas Townsend Brown.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:30:00.4-01:30:03.4 testimony first hand
115
Thomas Townsend Brown carried out a technology retrieval mission behind enemy lines during World War II.
“when Thomas Townsend Brown did a tech retrieval mission in behind enemy lines in world war two”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:30:04.3-01:30:10.4 testimony first hand
116
A telegram exists from William Stephenson to Thomas Townsend Brown's wife Josephine Brown saying her husband was safe and in their custody during his wartime mission behind enemy lines.
“there's a telegram, uh, from William Stevenson to Townsend's wife, Josephine. And he says, your husband is okay. You know, we, we have him, he's okay.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:30:10.5-01:30:19.6 testimony second hand
117
William Stephenson and Thomas Townsend Brown went on trips to the Bahamas on a yacht owned by Eldridge Reeves Johnson.
“They, they, they also went on these sort of, uh, trips to the Bahamas on this yacht owned by this guy, Eldridge Reeves Johnson”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:30:24.0-01:30:31.1 testimony first hand
118
Eldridge Reeves Johnson was head of the Radio Corporation of America (RCA) Victor Talking Machine Company.
“head of RCA, Victor Talking Machines Company”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:30:32.9-01:30:36.0 administrative first hand
119
William Stephenson, Thomas Townsend Brown and Eldridge Reeves Johnson were interested in exotic technology.
“and they were interested in really exotic technology.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:30:36.4-01:30:37.8 testimony first hand
120
William Stephenson was very close with Charles Proteus Steinmetz.
“the super spy Stevenson was also very close with a guy named Charles Proteus Steinmetz”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:31:01.4-01:31:06.2 testimony first hand
121
Charles Proteus Steinmetz worked for General Electric in Schenectady, New York.
“Charles Proteus Steinmetz, who was working for GE in Shinnecdoche, New York”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:31:04.9-01:31:10.1 administrative first hand
122
Charles Proteus Steinmetz was extremely interested in heterodox models for electromagnetism, of the kind that would today be described as extended electrodynamics.
“was extremely interested in kind of heterodox models for electromagnetism. You know, what might be described today as extended electrodynamics”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:31:10.6-01:31:20.4 testimony first hand
123
Hal Puthoff is very interested in extended electrodynamics.
“which people like Hal Puthoff are very interested in”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:31:21.5-01:31:23.6 testimony first hand
124
Agnew Bahnson funded the top theoretical physicists of his time, including Thomas Townsend Brown, who was working on anti-gravity experiments.
“you have Agnew Bahnson who's funding all the top theoretical physicists at the time, but also a lot of interesting people like Townsend Brown, literally working on anti-gravity, doing anti-gravity experiments.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:31:26.0-01:31:38.0 testimony first hand
125
The Stars Are Too High is a novel about rogue Nazi scientists who break away and collaborate with American scientists to create man-made UFOs and then stage an alien invasion.
“it's a book about rogue Nazi scientists who break off and collaborate with American scientists and create essentially man-made UFOs and then stage an alien invasion.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:31:43.3-01:31:58.4 testimony second hand
126
Agnew Bahnson died a couple of years after writing The Stars Are Too High in a plane crash.
“And he dies a couple of years later in a bizarre plane crash”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:31:59.3-01:32:02.5 testimony first hand
127
Agnew Bahnson's family believe to this day that he was killed, because power lines were put up right at the landing strip where his plane crashed.
“which to this day, his family thinks, you know, he was killed essentially because the power lines were put up right where, you know, he was right on the landing strip or whatever.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:32:02.8-01:32:11.0 hearsay second hand
128
William Steinman visited the house of Eric Henry Wang and met Wang's widow Maria Wang.
“William Steinman yeah you know goes to um the house of uh Eric Henry Wang ... and he meets with uh Wang's uh widow uh Maria Wang”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:32:17.7-01:32:30.5 testimony first hand
129
Eric Henry Wang ran special projects at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.
“Eric Henry Wang who has ran special projects at wright patterson”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:32:23.2-01:32:26.0 administrative first hand
130
Maria Wang told William Steinman that her husband Eric Henry Wang had worked on UFOs and that his boss was Henry Kissinger.
“and she's like yes my husband did work on ufos and his boss was Henry Kissinger”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:32:31.8-01:32:37.5 hearsay third hand
131
Jesse Michels believes Henry Kissinger might have been tied in with the UFO subject.
“there are a couple of other things that make me believe Kissinger might've been tied in with the whole UFO thing”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:32:41.7-01:32:46.9 opinion first hand
132
Jesse Michels considers Henry Kissinger to have been more beholden to Nelson Rockefeller than to Richard Nixon throughout his tenure as Secretary of State under Nixon.
“Kissinger was probably more beholden to Nelson Rockefeller than he was to Nixon throughout his tenure as secretary of state under Nixon.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:32:48.7-01:32:55.7 opinion first hand
133
Otto Skorzeny went to South America and afterwards partnered with Mossad, working with the Israelis after having been a Nazi.
“I think went to South America was this notoriously kind of ruthless guy. And I think then partnered up with Mossad after, so he like worked with the Israelis after being a Nazi.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:34:44.6-01:34:55.8 testimony first hand
134
Jesse Michels suggests Jim Semivan's remarks about a non-state hostile intelligence network are simply about WikiLeaks, because Mike Pompeo hated Julian Assange.
“But isn't that because Pompeo hated Julian Assange and isn't he just talking about WikiLeaks?”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:44:43.5-01:44:47.4 opinion first hand
135
Carroll Quigley's book The Anglo-American Establishment describes United States intelligence agencies as having been born out of a round table culture between secret societies in the United States and Britain, associated with Cecil Rhodes and Lord Alfred Milner.
“i don't know if you've ever read Carroll Quigley The Anglo-American Establishment but it talks about how uh u.s intelligence agencies were birthed out of this kind of round table culture between secret societies in the US and the UK or really Britain at the time and it was Cecil Rhodes and uh Lord Alfred Milner and you know counterparts in the U.S”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:45:46.1-01:46:09.3 hearsay second hand
136
The informal intelligence networks that existed before 1947 did not disappear when the Central Intelligence Agency was created and those earlier bodies were formally disbanded; they persisted in some form, in Jesse Michels's assessment.
“the idea that after 1947 when the CIA gets created and those things get formally disbanded those all go away is ridiculous you know those informal networks have to persist in some shape or form”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:46:12.7-01:46:26.2 opinion first hand
137
The material concerning Jeffrey Epstein points to science suppression as a recurring theme, in Jesse Michels's assessment.
“then you look at the Epstein stuff and it kind of points at that too and it points at a lot of science suppression being a theme”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:46:27.0-01:46:32.9 opinion first hand
138
Jeffrey Epstein set up Zorro Ranch in New Mexico in order to be near retiring Los Alamos National Laboratory physicists, according to Jesse Michels's account of Epstein's messages to Steve Bannon.
“he says tells Bannon that he's you know decides to set up Zorro Ranch because Los Alamos physicists are retiring uh you know in New Mexico and so he wants to be you know have proximity to them”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:46:33.3-01:46:44.6 hearsay third hand
139
In an email, Jeffrey Epstein wrote that he killed Stanley Pons, a reference to the cold fusion work of Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann, according to Jesse Michels.
“he says he kills Pons in an email which is cold fusion he's talking about Pons and Fleischmann”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:46:44.9-01:46:50.2 hearsay second hand
140
Robert Maxwell is Ghislaine Maxwell's father.
“Robert Maxwell is Ghislaine's father.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:47:00.4-01:47:02.0 administrative
141
Robert Maxwell had ties to Israeli intelligence.
“people always note his Israeli intelligence ties, which are definitely a thing”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:47:03.4-01:47:06.9 testimony
142
Robert Maxwell was tied in with the Secret Intelligence Service (MI6), in Jesse Michels's belief.
“But he also, I believe, was tied in with the MI6.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:47:08.0-01:47:09.7 opinion first hand
143
Robert Maxwell interrogated Nazi scientists after the Second World War, according to Jesse Michels.
“So you have this MI6 guy in Robert Maxwell, who I also don't think anybody knows, interrogated Nazi scientists post-World War II.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:47:13.5-01:47:22.6 testimony
144
Robert Maxwell went on to set up scientific peer review.
“And then he's setting up scientific peer review.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:47:23.1-01:47:24.9 testimony
145
Robert Maxwell sold software that systematically siphoned off American nuclear secrets to some organisation, in Jesse Michels's assessment.
“So Robert Maxwell is selling software that is systematically siphoning off American nuclear secrets. Mm. to some organization. That is very weird and worthy of investigation, you would think.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:48:34.7-01:48:46.0 opinion first hand
146
Israel has an elite hacking unit called Unit 8200 staffed by elite cyber hackers.
“they have an elite hacking unit called 8,200 and they, you know, all those guys are like, you know, elite cyber hackers and stuff”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:49:50.7-01:49:58.1 testimony
147
Pegasus spyware, if installed on a phone, tracks the user's keystrokes and effectively everything else on the device, according to Jesse Michels.
“did Pegasus also come out of Israel, which, you know, is obviously, you know, if, if that's on your phone, they, you know, they do track all your keystrokes, you know, pretty much everything.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:49:58.9-01:50:08.4 testimony
148
Ben Rich, late in his life, spoke about UFOs and lamented that the UFO issue was governed by an international corporate board, hoping instead that it would be brought under the umbrella of the American intelligence and aerospace world, according to Jesse Michels.
“Ben Rich was saying, well, he was saying at the end of his life, he was talking about UFOs and he was lamenting the fact that the UFO issue was governed by this international corporate board and was hoping that it would be taken under the kind of umbrella of, you know, American Intel and aerospace world more.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:50:40.2-01:50:59.6 hearsay second hand
149
Ben Rich was at the tip of the spear in building reconnaissance aircraft for the Central Intelligence Agency and advanced American defence technology, in Jesse Michels's characterisation.
“you hear a guy who's at the tip of the spear when it comes to building recon planes for the CIA and, you know, very advanced American defense tech”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:51:02.0-01:51:11.3 opinion first hand
150
Ben Rich said there was something international above him that governed the UFO issue, according to Jesse Michels.
“And he's saying that there's something international above him that governs the UFO issue.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:51:11.6-01:51:17.9 hearsay second hand
151
Symposiums studying UFOs are constructed in the lineage of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, in Jason Samosa's account as summarised by Jesse Michels.
“You often get these sort of constructs as well of like, symposiums studying UFOs in the context of like, you describe it as like of the lineage of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:52:18.1-01:52:31.7 opinion second hand
152
Jesse Michels dismisses the secret space program idea because of Corey Goode and Gaia, considering the "20 and back" material ridiculous.
“But I'm gonna write it off now because of Corey Goode and Gaia, because that's the 20 and back stuff is so ridiculous.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:55:45.0-01:55:51.6 opinion first hand
153
Infighting among UFO researchers makes the field look crazy, which is itself falling prey to manufactured division, in Jesse Michels's assessment.
“We all look crazy, which then you're, you're falling prey to the manufactured division.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:56:57.1-01:57:01.2 opinion first hand
154
Charles III is very interested in UFOs, according to Jesse Michels, who reports it as something apparently the case.
“apparently King Charles is super into UFOs.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:58:58.4-01:59:00.2 hearsay
155
Shirley MacLaine is a famous actor based in Los Angeles and a spiritual, new-age but thoughtful figure, in Jesse Michels's characterisation.
“this book by Shirley MacLaine, this famous actor out here in LA. She's this very spiritual figure, kind of new agey, but really thoughtful as well.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:00:48.7-02:01:00.5 opinion first hand
156
In her book Going Within, Shirley MacLaine describes being in a government office in Washington DC with Claiborne Pell.
“she was writing about being in some government office in DC, and she's with Claiborne Pell.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:01:06.5-02:01:13.0 hearsay third hand
157
Claiborne Pell was deeply interested in UFOs and paranormal subjects.
“who is super into, you know, UFOs, paranormal stuff”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:01:13.9-02:01:16.6 testimony
158
Claiborne Pell was a senator and served as an advisor to Joe Biden.
“actually happens to be Biden's. He's a senator and he was Biden's advisor.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:01:17.1-02:01:21.1 administrative
159
Budd Hopkins was present at the Washington DC meeting described by Shirley MacLaine in Going Within.
“Senator Pell and the Budd Hopkins is there as well.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:01:26.6-02:01:31.0 hearsay second hand
160
An experiencer present at the Washington DC meeting described in Shirley MacLaine's Going Within claimed she was part of an alien hybrid programme and that her foetus went missing three months into the pregnancy, according to Jesse Michels.
“And I think has an experiencer there who she claims that like she was, you know, there was part of some alien hybrid program or whatever. And her fetus went missing three months in.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:01:31.6-02:01:41.9 hearsay third hand
161
A foetus going missing about three months into a pregnancy is a commonly reported element among people interested in the alien abduction thread, according to Jesse Michels.
“which is a common thing if you talk to people who are, you know, interested in the abduction thread.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:01:42.3-02:01:46.3 testimony
162
Hans-Adam II, the Prince of Liechtenstein, was present at the Washington DC meeting described in Shirley MacLaine's Going Within.
“and then the Royal Prince of Lichtenstein is there as well. And she's just writing about this casually”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:01:48.8-02:01:52.9 hearsay second hand
163
Hans-Adam II convened all of the Roswell crash witnesses, according to Jesse Michels.
“apparently he convened the Royal Prince of Lichtenstein, Hans Adams convened all of the Roswell, uh, witnesses as well.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:01:55.2-02:02:02.1 hearsay
164
Hans-Adam II was friends with Whitley Strieber and was strongly interested in UFOs.
“he was friends with Whitley Strieber and like, he was just really interested in UFOs.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:02:04.4-02:02:08.1 testimony
165
Hans-Adam II is still alive and in his early eighties, in Jesse Michels's belief.
“I think he's still alive. I think he's in his early eighties or.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:02:08.3-02:02:10.6 opinion first hand
166
Edwin May may also have been part of the Lone Stars group, in Jesse Michels's suggestion.
“Ed May, who might have been par”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:02:40.1-02:02:41.4 opinion first hand
167
A member of the Lone Stars group discussed by Jesse Michels was a well-known remote viewer involved in the government's Stargate Project remote-viewing programme.
“t of that group, he was a famous remote viewer involved in the Stargate program.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:02:41.7-02:02:45.0 testimony first hand
168
The Lone Stars group member described by Jesse Michels has spoken about working with Prince Hans-Adam II of Liechtenstein.
“He talks about working with the Royal Prince of Lichtenstein, Hans Adams.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:02:45.6-02:02:50.9 testimony first hand
169
Jesse Michels considers the outlook of the Lone Stars group figure he describes to be eschatological at its core, holding that Jesus will arrive on a flying saucer.
“And I think, I think he believes that Jesus will show up on a flying saucer or something. it's eschatological at its core.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:03:00.1-02:03:09.3 opinion first hand
170
Some people interpret the ascension of Jesus into a cloud described in the Book of Acts as a flying saucer.
“I think there are people who think that, you know, the Jesus going up on the cloud in the book of acts as a, you know, as a flying saucer or something.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:03:25.7-02:03:32.7 opinion first hand
171
Jesse Michels believes Jesus was a real historical figure.
“I mean, I think he was a real historical figure.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:03:54.5-02:03:56.2 opinion first hand
172
Jesse Michels expects that if one were in a room with Jesus he would be notable, with an interesting energy and a disproportionate impact on the room.
“my guess would also be if we were in the room with Jesus, he would be notable in any room he's in... have a disproportionate impact”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:04:09.8-02:04:17.8 opinion first hand
173
Jesse Michels sees cynical motives, weird elements and competing factions behind the modern UFO disclosure push.
“Obviously there are cynical motives and intents behind it and weird elements and factions all fighting and vying for it”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:04:45.4-02:04:54.4 opinion first hand
174
Jesse Michels finds the UFO disclosure push hopeful because it bulldozes the past paradigm of materialist reductionism, which he regards as leading to nihilism.
“this bulldozer into the past paradigm of kind of materialist reductionism which to me leads to kind of nihilism”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:05:00.3-02:05:07.9 opinion first hand
175
Jesse Michels agrees that releasing information about differing levels of non-human DNA in people would not be a good idea at present.
“Jason Samosa: telling me you want to release that information into the general population right now? Jesse Michels: no it doesn't seem like a good idea”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:12:58.4-02:13:03.4 opinion first hand
176
Jesse Michels notes that the anecdotal hybridisation material comes from people who were very senior in the CIA, such as Jim Semivan.
“it's anecdotal but it's also from guys who are very high up at the CIA especially when it comes to people like Jim Sammivan”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:13:15.5-02:13:21.6 opinion first hand
177
Jesse Michels suggests a savvy intelligence figure could disclose alien-human hybrid information knowing most of the public would dismiss it, letting the idea marinate and trickle through society until it becomes acceptable to discuss five or ten years later and academics take it up.
“if you're the Intel person who's super savvy, you're going to know that you saying that will hit like, you know, some part of the population... And then it kind of sits there, marinates trickles through society and kind of, you know, it becomes more acceptable to talk about five, 10 years later... one academic gets interested, and that's how this thing sort of gets legitimized”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:13:53.1-02:14:08.9 opinion first hand
178
Jesse Michels holds that senior intelligence figures speaking publicly about the UFO subject do not want to be seen decades later as having bald-faced lied to the American public, which constrains what they say.
“they don't want to be looked at as like, you just bold faced lied to the American public, you know, as some high up Intel person.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:15:18.5-02:15:24.9 opinion first hand
179
Jesse Michels considers American wars more explicable through a lens of acquiring oil and resources and geopolitics, and finds American foreign policy of the last 70 years to make more sense read that way.
“Well, they make a little more sense through the kind of lens of, you know, acquiring oil and resources and geopolitics... you kind of view like American foreign policy through that hermeneutic over the last 70 years and it starts to make more sense.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:16:08.5-02:16:22.9 opinion first hand
180
Jesse Michels regards Iran as a paper tiger whose nuclear programme has never really seemed to manifest, and suggests pressure on Iran serves to pressure China and make the world more dependent on American natural gas.
“why would you go into Iran for, you know, a nuclear program that's never really seemed to manifest? They don't really, they seem like a paper tiger... does it put a lot of, you know, pressure on China and make the whole world more dependent on American natural gas? Yes, it does.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:16:18.2-02:16:36.5 opinion first hand
181
The Congress of Vienna took place in 1815.
“Jason Samosa: Let's say 1812 or something. Jesse Michels: 1815.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:19:11.2-02:19:12.4 testimony first hand
182
Klemens von Metternich oversaw the Congress of Vienna.
“Jason Samosa: Klemens von Metternich. Who's that? Jesse Michels: He oversaw the Congress of Vienna.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:19:17.3-02:19:21.2 testimony first hand
183
The Holy See (the Vatican) confiscated a written prophecy given to the children who witnessed the Fatima Marian apparitions, and Jesse Michels believes that prophecy was more complex than the historical portrayal of a sun or Virgin Mary appearance.
“I think the Vatican confiscated one of the prophecies from the, the orphans or whatever... And it was written down and that piece of paper was literally confiscated by the Vatican.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:22:32.7-02:22:41.6 opinion first hand
184
Jesse Michels believes material from the Magenta UFO crash is held by the Holy See (the Vatican) or is at least known to it.
“And then you have the magenta crash probably being held by the Vatican as well, or at least under the knowledge.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:22:46.8-02:22:52.6 opinion first hand
185
Jesse Michels believes material from the Magenta UFO crash was held at the Sarate bunker outside Rome.
“I think it was held at the Sarate bunker, which was outside of Rome”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:22:53.0-02:22:55.6 opinion first hand
186
Information about the Magenta UFO crash was back-channelled through Pope Pius XII to Franklin D. Roosevelt.
“but it was the information about it was back channeled through Pope Pius the 12th to FDR”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:22:56.4-02:23:02.2 hearsay first hand
187
Jesse Michels considers the Majestic 12 documents probably a counter-intelligence ploy, while holding that part of the material in them is real.
“I think they were probably some counter Intel ploy, but clearly part of the stuff in there is real.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:23:10.4-02:23:16.0 opinion first hand
188
One of the Majestic 12 documents describes Francis Spellman being given immediate access to the materials from the Roswell crash.
“And there's one document around, uh, Francis Spellman being given access to the Roswell materials... he's supposed to get access to the Roswell materials immediately, but this is in the Majestic 12 documents.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:23:16.9-02:23:25.4 testimony second hand
189
Francis Spellman was deeply tied in with the Holy See (the Vatican).
“Francis Spellman is deeply tied in with the Vatican.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:23:23.0-02:23:25.5 testimony first hand
190
Records outside the Majestic 12 documents show Bishop John McIntyre, a senior figure in the Catholic hierarchy, present around Edwards Air Force Base in 1954.
“And then there's documentation of Bishop McIntyre, another guy pretty high up in the Vatican ecosystem. And he's hanging out around Edwards Air Force Base in 1954. This is not even MJ-12. This is real records”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:23:39.1-02:23:52.4 testimony second hand
191
Dwight D. Eisenhower is rumoured to have made a deal with aliens in 1954 permitting medical experiments to be carried out on the human population.
“Eisenhower is rumored to, you know, do his deal with the aliens around allowing medical experiments to be done among the human population.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:23:59.6-02:24:07.6 hearsay
192
The Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI) recurs throughout UFO lore, arriving after sightings at nuclear bases to seize radar data, silence witnesses and require non-disclosure agreements.
“Cause they pop up all over UFO lore... somebody in nuclear base sees something and the air force officer special investigations shows up... Says, you know, give me all the radar data, shut up about this, sign this NDA.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:25:22.8-02:25:36.8 opinion first hand
193
Jesse Michels frames the division as between a crowd seeking to immanentise the eschaton and a crowd seeking to restrain it and keep institutions intact.
“Yeah, there's the immanentizing the eschaton crowd, and then there's the, you know, yeah, let's restrain it and keep a lid on it and keep the institutions kind of intact.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:28:13.8-02:28:23.6 opinion first hand
194
Jesse Michels believes people holding both the accelerate-the-apocalypse and the restrain-the-apocalypse positions occupy extremely high positions of power, and speculates that these may be the two principal factions in conflict.
“So, and it seems like people who believe both are in extremely high positions of power... Maybe those are the two seminal factions fighting or something. I don't know.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:28:25.1-02:28:33.2 opinion first hand
195
Jesse Michels considers the biggest fallacy of UFO research to be treating figures such as Ronald Reagan as though they spent most of their time on UFOs, when the subject was under one per cent of their attention and their real focus was geopolitics.
“And I think maybe the biggest fallacy of UFO research is we talk about Reagan, like he spends all his time on UFOs. They're realizing it's sub 1%. And he really is just geopolitics.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:29:48.7-02:30:00.5 opinion first hand
196
Jesse Michels believes Donald Trump is not thinking deeply about UFOs, and finds the Resorts International connection to Trump fascinating and worth looking into.
“And same with Trump... if there's anything going on there, the resort's international thing. That's fascinating. And I want to look into that. But, like, my gut on that guy is he's not thinking deeply about UFOs, you know?”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 02:30:01.0-02:30:12.5 opinion first hand
197
Jeffrey Epstein was in a relationship with Ghislaine Maxwell, though Jesse Michels does not believe they were married.
“Epstein is with Ghislaine Maxwell... I don't think Ghislaine and you know, uh, Jeffrey were married necessarily”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 lines 3-11 opinion first hand
198
Charles Hall was the guest whose account Jesse Michels had the hardest time taking at face value.
“we talked about just the guest that you had the hardest time taking their story at face value with was Charles Hall. Jesse Michels: For sure.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:09:09.0-00:09:16.0 opinion first hand
199
Jesse Michels made a vision board and put Tim Taylor on it.
“i i put him on i made a vision board and he's on it”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:10:43.8-00:10:46.4 testimony first hand
200
Tim Taylor sits at the intersection of unconventional subject matter such as time travel and conventional nuts-and-bolts aerospace work.
“he's the intersection between trippy stuff and then real nuts and bolts aerospace ... Like time travel and other stuff.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:10:58.6-00:11:05.8 opinion first hand
201
Chris Bledsoe said Tim Taylor was writing a book with Thomas Townsend Brown's daughter.
“And Bledsoe said that he was writing a book with Townsend Brown's daughter. ... Chris Ramsay: Who was writing a book? Jesse Michels: Tim Taylor.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:11:21.4-00:11:28.1 hearsay second hand
202
Thomas Townsend Brown's daughter left an Amazon review on Tim Taylor's book.
“And didn't Townsend Brown's daughter leave a, like, some type of Amazon review on his book? Jesse Michels: Yes. Yes.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:11:30.4-00:11:38.2 testimony first hand
203
Thomas Townsend Brown's daughter took part in a phone call featured in Jesse Michels's original documentary about Thomas Townsend Brown, and speaks with Jesse Michels by telephone occasionally.
“she was on a phone call in my original Townsend Brown documentary. And so we'll occasionally talk on the phone and she's fascinating.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:11:44.4-00:11:51.4 testimony first hand
204
Project Preserve Destiny, associated with Dan Sherman, is a distinct effort from the reverse engineering of a craft.
“Project Preserve Destiny is definitely stepwise different than reverse engineering a craft, which is the stuff you're tracking.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:13:23.1-00:13:28.0 opinion first hand
205
Taking Bob Lazar's account at face value, the programme he worked on was at least examining small time perturbations.
“if you take Bob Bazaar face value, they were at least looking at little time perturbations”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:13:37.7-00:13:41.8 opinion first hand
206
In Launch Fever, Tim Taylor writes about flying back and forth between Florida and the Bahamas and says time moved differently there.
“And he writes about flying back and forth between Florida and the Bahamas. And he says, time moved differently there.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:13:53.8-00:14:01.3 testimony second hand
207
Tim Taylor told Chris Bledsoe's son that he was part of a time travel group of which Thomas Townsend Brown was the president.
“he's telling Chris Bledsoe's son that he's part of this time travel group. And Townsend Brown was the president of it.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:14:10.5-00:14:16.1 hearsay third hand
208
Thomas Townsend Brown always conceived of himself as a time traveller.
“And Townsend Brown always conceived of himself as a time traveler.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:14:16.2-00:14:19.0 testimony first hand
209
Asked by Jesse Michels what her father would be doing now if he were a time traveller, Thomas Townsend Brown's daughter answered that he was probably rearranging the mathematics of frontier science to ensure humanity does not blow itself up.
“I literally asked Townsend Brown's daughter, like, what is, if your father is a time traveler, what is he up to now? And she goes, he's probably rearranging the math on the most frontier science to make sure we don't blow ourselves up.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:14:19.5-00:14:33.1 hearsay second hand
210
Late in his life Harald Malmgren was researching Thomas Townsend Brown in depth and had extensive notes on him.
“Malmgren, at the end of his life, was going really deep on Townsend Brown. ... And was, like, had all these, like, notes on him.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:14:46.4-00:14:53.0 testimony first hand
211
Harald Malmgren said he had a foreign intelligence source who gave him documentation of Thomas Townsend Brown collaborating with Nikola Tesla on gravity research.
“he apparently said he had a foreign intelligence source that gave him documentation of Townsend Brown collaborating with Tesla on some gravity stuff, which is crazy.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:14:53.8-00:15:04.7 hearsay third hand
212
Jesse Michels believes Harald Malmgren was with the Central Intelligence Agency.
“UAP Gerb: Are we all in solidarity that Malmgren was likely CIA? Jesse Michels: Yeah. ... I think for sure.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:15:20.6-00:15:25.1 opinion first hand
213
Harald Malmgren spoke about Yevgeny Primakov, Anatoly Dobrynin and Georges Pompidou.
“Because he was talking about Primakov and Dobrynin and Pompidou, like a global stage sort of guy.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:15:31.3-00:15:39.8 testimony first hand
214
Harald Malmgren was at Yale University, and at the University of Oxford before that.
“And then he was at Yale and at Oxford before that.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:15:40.1-00:15:44.1 administrative first hand
215
Harald Malmgren kept Paul Mellon's walking stick at his apartment, and Jesse Michels held it.
“He had Paul Mellon's walking stick at his apartment and I'm holding it.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:15:47.0-00:15:50.8 observation first hand
216
Paul Mellon founded the Central Intelligence Agency.
“Paul Mellon founded the CIA.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:15:51.0-00:15:51.8 testimony first hand
217
Harald Malmgren described Tom Farmer as his best friend.
“And then he goes, my best friend, Tom Farmer or whatever.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:15:52.5-00:15:54.6 testimony second hand
218
Tom Farmer was the general counsel of the Central Intelligence Agency.
“And then you look up Tom Farmer, he was the general counsel of the CIA.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:15:55.0-00:15:57.6 administrative first hand
219
Harald Malmgren said his role at the Institute for Defense Analyses (IDA) was a cover for his work on the United States National Security Council.
“Which he literally said was a cover for his work on the National Security Council.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:16:08.9-00:16:11.8 hearsay second hand
220
D. Dean Johnson published a critique arguing that Harald Malmgren did not work on the United States National Security Council.
“So this whole D. Dean Johnson takedown around him not working on the National Security Council”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:16:12.5-00:16:17.4 administrative first hand
221
Jesse Michels considers Harald Malmgren an example of someone who had both an ontologically unusual experience and a meta perspective able to make sense of it as an actor in the world.
“I felt like Malmgren was like that too, where you had the like... Meta perspective of like being able to make sense of it. You were like an actor in the world.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:23:46.3-00:23:54.7 opinion first hand
222
Guy Banister was a man at the Federal Bureau of Investigation whom Jesse Michels describes as the real-life basis for the X-Files character.
“the Guy Bannister was this guy at the FBI... But he is the X-Files guy.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:26:39.1-00:26:41.5 opinion first hand
223
Lee Harvey Oswald was working out of Guy Banister's building at 544 Camp Street in New Orleans.
“Lee Harvey Oswald was working out of his building at 554 Camp Street... Or 544 Camp Street in New Orleans, which is crazy.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:26:43.2-00:26:50.4 administrative first hand
224
Fred Crisman worked under Guy Banister and was another Federal Bureau of Investigation man.
“this guy Fred Chrisman worked under him. He was another FBI guy”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:26:55.4-00:26:58.3 administrative first hand
225
Fred Crisman showed up at the Maury Island incident.
“who showed up at the Maury Island incident.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:26:58.5-00:26:59.9 administrative first hand
226
The Maury Island incident was adjacent in time to the 1947 Kenneth Arnold UFO sighting.
“Which was literally like adjacent to the Kenneth Arnold sighting”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:27:01.4-00:27:03.8 administrative first hand
227
In the Maury Island incident a person said his dog was killed by slag falling from a UFO.
“which was another UFO experience where somebody said his dog got killed by UFO slag coming down or whatever.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:27:04.2-00:27:09.7 hearsay second hand
228
Christopher Kit Green is said to have run the Central Intelligence Agency's so-called weird desk, with Ron Pandolfi later taking over.
“it's like the weird desk at the CIA that they say, you know, they say Kit Green was on it. Then they say Ron Pandolfi took over”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:27:45.8-00:27:52.7 hearsay
229
David Duchovny is a UFO sceptic, according to what Jesse Michels has heard.
“Well, I think he's a UFO skeptic is what I hear.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:28:30.6-00:28:32.9 hearsay
230
Jesse Michels considers that public consensus on UFOs is shifting, and that five or six years before 2026-07-17 it was not popular to say one believed in the subject.
“now I do think the consensus is shifting five, six years ago. I don't think it was popular to say you believe in this stuff.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:28:55.6-00:29:02.6 opinion first hand
231
Whitley Strieber has said that alien hybrids chain smoke.
“they also say that, like, alien hybrids chain smoke or whatever. Like, that's, like, one of Whitley Striever's thing.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:29:24.5-00:29:30.1 hearsay second hand
232
Jesse Michels considers UAP Gerb's work the open-source equivalent of what David Grusch did at the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force.
“you're doing the open source version of what he did at the UAPTF, I think”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:31:34.0-00:31:37.8 opinion first hand
233
David Grusch was known within the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force for having a memory like a steel trap and serving as a large database of information on the subject.
“he was known as like this really like, you know, his mind was a steel trap and he was just this like, big database of like all this stuff”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:31:38.5-00:31:47.6 hearsay
234
Jesse Michels is fairly confident that a crash retrieval programme is under way, but considers the metaphysical truth behind it the more interesting question.
“isn't the, like, functional, like, what's going on in the form of a crash retrieval program. Like, I'm pretty sure that is going on. It's the metaphysical truth behind it.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:33:21.7-00:33:30.5 opinion first hand
235
Jesse Michels concluded in retrospect that Harald Malmgren's scope of involvement was much wider than he had ever imagined.
“I think with like the Malmgren thing, like in retrospect, I think he was had much wider of a scope than I ever would have ever imagined.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:33:45.0-00:33:52.8 opinion first hand
236
Bobby Ray Inman served as director of the National Security Agency.
“nsa director and deputy”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:34:10.0-00:34:11.1 administrative
237
Jesse Michels considers that an interviewer questioning Bobby Ray Inman would need to raise specific overlaps in his career with specific people, and to read his body language, because trained intelligence professionals filter questions into what they can and cannot discuss.
“I think you'd have to touch on real specifics as far as overlap that he's had in his career with specific people... these people are running your questions through a filter of like uh can talk about can't talk about”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:35:26.1-00:35:36.7 opinion first hand
238
Jesse Michels considers open-source knowledge on the UFO subject to be a minefield.
“it's like an open source knowledge on this stuff is a fucking minefield.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:36:25.2-00:36:29.5 opinion first hand
239
Bobby Ray Inman spent time at Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC) and had an interest in psychotronic weapons.
“Well, I'd also want to ask about his time at SAIC specifically, his interest in psychotronic weapons.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:37:04.2-00:37:09.3 administrative
240
Jesse Michels believes Russia must have an underwater unidentified aerial phenomena programme because it operates nuclear submarines, which he holds attract the phenomenon.
“I think they have to have a program because they have nuclear subs. And if you have nuclear subs, then you're going to attract this stuff no matter what.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:37:48.2-00:37:55.8 opinion first hand
241
Extended electrodynamics appears to be studied by Russia at the Yamantau mountain range in Bashkortostan.
“And then they also have this mountain range called the Yamento Mountain Range, where they seem to study sort of extended electrodynamics.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:38:03.1-00:38:09.6 hearsay
242
The Yamantau site in Bashkortostan, Russia is a nickel mine located near Kazakhstan.
“It's a nickel mine. It's near Kazakhstan.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:38:12.6-00:38:13.9 administrative
243
The Avrocar project in the United States tested flying saucers.
“And if you look at the Avrocar project in the US, it was literally this like, we tested flying saucers. That is not debatable.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:39:02.8-00:39:09.6 administrative
244
The Avrocar craft could not fly using the Coanda effect.
“And they couldn't fly, do this thing called the Coanda effect.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:39:10.7-00:39:13.5 administrative
245
The United States acquired personnel from the Kammlerstab, the secret Nazi technology organisation.
“But we got all these guys from Kammlerstab, the secret Nazi stuff, like Mita”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:39:14.2-00:39:18.7 administrative
246
The United States took Viktor Schauberger's intellectual property using army counterintelligence methods.
“and we stole all of Viktor Schauberger's IP using army counterintel stuff.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:39:19.8-00:39:24.4 administrative
247
The men who worked on reported flying saucers in Nazi Germany were brought to the United States through the Avrocar project, counterintelligence and other means.
“All of these guys that we're working on reported flying saucers in Nazi Germany, we took over here through Avrocar, Counter-Intel, other means.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:39:25.0-00:39:33.1 administrative
248
Jesse Michels believes Russia also acquired a substantial amount of the Nazi flying saucer technology, known as the Habermehl designs or Habermehl project.
“And so, they, I think, got a lot of this stuff, too. They were called like the Habermehl designs or the Habermehl project.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:39:34.1-00:39:40.5 opinion first hand
249
Jesse Michels believes exotic lineages of science exist in both the United States and Russia.
“And I think there are exotic lineages of science in both places.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:39:41.6-00:39:46.8 opinion first hand
250
Dennis Asberg, associated with the Baltic Sea anomaly, has spoken about Russian interest in the site.
“And then on the, you know, are they interested in underwater stuff, Dennis Asberg, you know, the Baltic Sea anomaly said that, you know, they're...”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:39:47.2-00:39:55.0 hearsay second hand
251
Jesse Michels considers the Baltic Sea to be of strategic importance and that Russia appears interested in the underwater object known as the Baltic Sea anomaly.
“Well, yeah, I mean, the Baltic Sea is obviously of very strategic importance, and it seems like they're interested in this object underwater.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:39:56.9-00:40:02.8 opinion first hand
252
Dan Burisch gave a public speaking event on molecular biology at Stony Brook University, an appearance which is documented on paper.
“the fact that where was that university that he went to to like do the public speaking event on molecular biology... And that's on paper. ... It was Stony Brook.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:41:55.1-00:42:03.9 administrative
253
Jesse Michels regards Stony Brook University as a centre of unconventional physics.
“Extremely bright minds. It's like a center of really spooky physics, I think.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:42:14.1-00:42:18.9 opinion first hand
254
Dan Burisch, by his own account, was recruited into the classified programme by Edward Teller, in the same way that Bob Lazar entered it.
“he also got into the program kind of the same way that Bob did through- Edward Teller... He recruited him. Or according to him.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:42:50.2-00:42:56.3 hearsay second hand
255
A photograph exists showing Dan Burisch with Mike McConnell, a navy admiral and intelligence director.
“a photo of him with Mike McConnell who's an SA director of the navy admiral”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:43:03.2-00:43:07.2 administrative
256
The researcher Brian Jackson says Mike McConnell regarded Dan Burisch as the son he never had, that McConnell's own son died in unusual circumstances, and that the two were said to have swapped souls.
“Because this researcher Brian Jackson says that McConnell viewed him like a son the son he never had and then his son died in a weird way and it's like they swapped souls or something and i i don't know what to make of it”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:43:16.6-00:43:29.5 hearsay second hand
257
Jeffrey Epstein recorded hours of conversation with Steve Bannon.
“So Epstein has like hours recorded with this guy, Steve Bannon”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:45:14.2-00:45:19.1 administrative
258
Jesse Michels regards Steve Bannon as probably an intelligence operative himself, and describes him as a Donald Trump operative from the 2016 era.
“So Epstein has like hours recorded with this guy, Steve Bannon, who's probably a spook himself... Trump's guy operative from the 20, from 2016 era.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:45:14.2-00:45:22.9 opinion first hand
259
In a recorded conversation with Steve Bannon, Jeffrey Epstein explained that he sited Zorro Ranch where he did in New Mexico because retired Los Alamos physicists were in the proximity and he wanted to have conversations with them.
“They're talking and he goes, why'd you, you know, put Zorro Ranch where it is in New Mexico? And he starts going on about retired Los Alamos physicists being in the proximity and him wanting to have conversations with these guys.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:45:28.5-00:45:43.4 hearsay second hand
260
Bill Richardson served as United States Secretary of Energy under Bill Clinton and was governor of New Mexico.
“Bill Richardson, I think was secretary of energy, um, under Bill Clinton, I believe he was a Clinton crony for sure. And like he was governor of New Mexico.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:45:51.8-00:46:01.9 administrative
261
Jesse Michels suspects a connection between Bill Richardson's roles as Secretary of Energy and governor of New Mexico and Jeffrey Epstein's presence in New Mexico.
“And so I think that there's some sort of connection there too.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:46:02.4-00:46:06.2 opinion first hand
262
Jesse Michels has heard rumours that Jeffrey Epstein was obsessed with the Casimir effect, which relates to zero-point energy.
“Look up, look up Casimir, which is zero point energy. Cause I, I've heard rumors that Epstein was obsessed with the Casimir.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:46:37.5-00:46:43.9 hearsay second hand
263
Jeffrey Epstein held gravity conferences.
“Oh, gravity. He holds these gravity conferences or whatever, but.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:48:11.3-00:48:14.8 administrative
264
Jesse Michels understands anti-gravity to mean repellent gravity, and finds it odd that Yuri Gribov's email refers to attractive gravity, since that is what gravity ordinarily is.
“interesting i wonder why he says attractive gravity because that's what gravity is i think of repellent gravity as being anti-gravity or something”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:49:43.1-00:49:50.4 opinion first hand
265
Some people say Vadim Zeland may be a collection of people rather than one individual; only one photograph of him exists, wearing large sunglasses, nobody knows who he is, and he has disappeared.
“And I think people say he might be a collection of people. There's one photo of him with these huge sunglasses on. Nobody knows who he is. Disappeared.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:50:44.8-00:50:53.3 hearsay second hand
266
Itzhak Bentov wrote Stalking the Wild Pendulum and died in a plane crash.
“No, I was thinking of Stalking the Wild Pendulum. I'm thinking of the other guy. / Itzhak Bentov. He died in a plane crash.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:50:57.4-00:51:01.6 administrative
267
Jesse Michels describes Itzhak Bentov as the Israeli counterpart of Andrija Puharich, and says the two were very close.
“He was like the Israeli version of Puharich and they were like very close.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:51:09.7-00:51:13.0 opinion first hand
268
Jesse Michels believes Andrija Puharich was with the CIA.
“I think he was CIA, and I think the CIA and Assad have always been really close.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:51:22.2-00:51:26.0 opinion first hand
269
In a video with Jesse Michels, Eric Weinstein put it to Eric Davis that the craft in question break physics yet there are no physicists on the programme.
“Eric Weinstein is like, you're telling me these crafts break physics. and there are no physicists on the program.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:55:26.4-00:55:31.8 hearsay second hand
270
Eric Davis, in a video with Jesse Michels, said he explored the crash retrieval question through the National Institute for Discovery Science and the Office of Special Access Programs and met five people on the crash retrieval programme, all of whom said the programme employed only material scientists and no physicists.
“And Eric Davis goes, yeah, I checked with the guy, you know, I was exploring this through NIDS and, you know, and OSAP and, you know, met with a lot of these people, met with five people on the crash retrieval program, and they all said it was just material scientists and no physicists.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:55:32.8-00:55:44.7 hearsay third hand
271
Eric Weinstein, in a video with Jesse Michels, said that he knows some of the smartest people in the United States and that they have no idea any of the unidentified aerial phenomena material is real.
“I know like some of the smartest people in the country and they have no idea any of this stuff is real.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:55:49.4-00:55:54.1 hearsay second hand
272
Jesse Michels considers the policy of excluding physicists from the crash retrieval programme to have no good justification and to be brain dead.
“There is no good. It's actually like a brain dead policy.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:56:06.5-00:56:09.4 opinion first hand
273
Jesse Michels suggests the reason physicists are excluded is that with the invention of the atomic bomb not only experimental physics but theoretical physics itself became extremely dangerous.
“with the invention of the atom bomb, not only did like instrumental, like experimental physics become dangerous, but theoretical physics itself became extremely dangerous.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:56:22.0-00:56:30.6 opinion first hand
274
Eric Weinstein's narrative, as characterised by Jesse Michels, is that string theory was pushed as a limited hangout, so that researchers who bump up against the genuinely sensitive material are farmed out or worked with.
“this is the kind of Weinstein narrative somewhat is like, String theory was pushed out as like a limited hangout where like you bump up against the right stuff and they farm you out”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:56:44.0-00:56:55.0 hearsay second hand
275
Jim Simons contributed to fundamental physics through the Chern-Simons equation.
“this guy, Jim Simons, who contributed to fundamental physics with the Chern-Simons equation”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:57:03.2-00:57:07.8 administrative first hand
276
Jim Simons was a National Security Agency code breaker.
“and also was an NSA code breaker”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:57:08.7-00:57:10.8 administrative first hand
277
Jim Simons founded the hedge fund Renaissance Technologies and its Medallion Fund.
“and then starts this hedge fund called the Medallion Fund”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:57:11.3-00:57:13.3 administrative first hand
278
The Medallion Fund has returned 30 per cent year on year since 1989.
“which does 30% year over year returns since 1989.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:57:13.7-00:57:16.0 measurement first hand
279
The Medallion Fund has made one hundred billion dollars.
“Literally made a hundred billion dollars.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:57:17.0-00:57:18.2 measurement first hand
280
Renaissance Technologies has gathered most of the leading differential geometers in the United States.
“it has all the most differential geometers in the country. They all go there”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:57:24.8-00:57:29.0 testimony first hand
281
People who join Renaissance Technologies must sign a lifetime non-disclosure agreement.
“and you have to sign an NDA for life once you go.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:57:29.4-00:57:31.2 testimony first hand
282
Jim Simons oversaw Stony Brook University and also oversees Brookhaven National Laboratory.
“He was Stony Brook, and he also oversees Brookhaven National Labs. So it was this kind of iron triangle.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:57:36.7-00:57:41.9 testimony first hand
283
David Spergel runs the Simons Foundation.
“The guy, David Spergel, is the guy who runs the Simons Foundation”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:57:43.1-00:57:47.2 administrative first hand
284
David Spergel led the NASA Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena Independent Study Team in 2022.
“and he did the NASA UAP review panel. He fucking was in charge of it in 2022.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:57:47.8-00:57:51.3 administrative first hand
285
Ed Witten has been the leading string theorist of the last 50 years.
“And the number one string theorist over the last 50 years is a guy named Ed Witten.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:59:07.9-00:59:12.6 opinion first hand
286
Louis Witten, the father of Ed Witten, worked on anti-gravity at the Martin Company's RIAS division, which was that company's anti-gravity division group.
“his father was working on antigravity at Martin Corporation's RIAS division, which was literally their antigravity division group.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:59:18.9-00:59:27.0 testimony first hand
287
Louis Witten said on video, in an interview Jesse Michels believes was for the American Institute of Physics, that Wright Field commissioned him to work on gravity.
“And he's giving an interview for the, I think, American Institute of Physics, and he's on video saying, Wright-Airfield commissioned me to do gravity.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:59:27.6-00:59:34.9 hearsay third hand
288
Louis Witten is around 103 years old and responds to emails about his gravity work by saying he cannot talk about it.
“And now if you email him, he's like 103 or something. He goes, I can't talk about that. I'm so sorry.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:59:35.7-00:59:41.0 testimony first hand
289
Jesse Michels considers the Magenta UFO crash to have fallen under the jurisdiction of Pope Pius XII.
“The Magenta crash was under, you know, I think, what was it? Pope Pius?... The XII... It was like, you know, under his jurisdiction.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:05:11.5-01:05:18.9 opinion first hand
290
Pope Pius XII helped back-channel information about the Magenta UFO crash to Franklin D. Roosevelt.
“And then he helped back channel the information back to FDR.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:05:20.6-01:05:23.8 testimony first hand
291
Diana Walsh Pasulka has spoken about access to the Vatican archives and went there with Tim Taylor, hinting that the Holy See knows much more than is apparent.
“And then you have Pasulka talking about access to the Vatican archives and, you know, her going with Tim Taylor and hinting that they know much more than meets the eye.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:05:33.0-01:05:42.3 hearsay second hand
292
Once a year, within the grounds of Vatican City, a UFO research group meets and discusses historical unidentified flying object material, at a location Jesse Michels renders in rough translation as St Anne's Cathedral.
“And they have in, I think it's like the rough translation is like St. Anne's Cathedral. There's once a year within the grounds of the Vatican, there is a UFO research group that meets up and discusses this old stuff.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:06:18.1-01:06:32.6 testimony first hand
293
Guglielmo Marconi's grandson, interviewed by Jesse Michels, said that Guglielmo Marconi was part of RS/33.
“and i interviewed Marconi's grandson who says that Marconi was part of RS33”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:06:38.5-01:06:42.1 hearsay second hand
294
Jesse Michels attended an interdisciplinary faith event inside the Vatican, to which he was invited.
“i'm in the Vatican as part of this like you know event it's like some like interdisciplinary faith thing or whatever that i was invited”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:06:47.9-01:06:56.6 testimony first hand
295
Jesse Michels gained access to the Vatican event through a person who contacted him around the time of his Peru mummies documentary and who was connected with Kirsan Ilyumzhinov.
“So this dude that reached out around my Peru mummies dock was connected with Kirsan Ilyumzhinov.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:06:58.5-01:07:05.0 testimony first hand
296
Kirsan Ilyumzhinov was president of Kalmykia.
“Chris Ramsay: Micronesia or whatever. Jesse Michels: Of Kalmykia.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:07:09.2-01:07:12.2 administrative first hand
297
Kalmykia has a population of 300,000.
“They're a population of 300,000, and they're beautiful people.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:07:15.4-01:07:18.4 measurement first hand
298
Kirsan Ilyumzhinov was also president of the World Chess Federation (FIDE).
“So he was also president of the World Chess Federation, FIDE.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:07:25.0-01:07:27.0 administrative first hand
299
Jesse Michels declines to say whether Kirsan Ilyumzhinov acted entirely above board as ruler of Kalmykia, while finding him personable.
“He might not have done everything above board as dictator of his country. I'm not going to comment on that.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:07:42.6-01:07:48.2 opinion first hand
300
In his interview with Jesse Michels, Kirsan Ilyumzhinov said he spent a great deal of time with Henry Kissinger and that Henry Kissinger seemed to know a lot about the UFO subject.
“He said he spent a ton of time with Kissinger, and Kissinger seemed to know a lot about the UFO stuff.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:08:13.1-01:08:17.2 hearsay second hand
301
In his interview with Jesse Michels, Kirsan Ilyumzhinov said that a president of another country whom he was friends with was abducted on a fishing trip but was afraid to speak about it.
“And he said that there was a president of another country who he was friends with who got abducted on a fishing trip but was afraid to speak about it.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:08:18.5-01:08:26.1 hearsay third hand
302
Jesse Michels considers Kirsan Ilyumzhinov not to be lying in his interview, while allowing for some embellishment.
“maybe, maybe there's like a little bit of embellishment going on. So there's, he's not lying... He's not lying.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:08:29.8-01:08:35.1 opinion first hand
303
Kirsan Ilyumzhinov attended an interfaith event at the Vatican with representatives of many religions present.
“he had this invite to this Vatican event or whatever and it was like faiths of all you know it was like every religion or whatever representatives would go or whatever and Kirsan was there”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:09:11.1-01:09:20.6 observation first hand
304
At the Vatican interfaith event, Kirsan Ilyumzhinov brought a large chess piece that he intended to give to the Pope.
“Kirsan was there and he had this big chess piece that he wanted to give to the pope”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:09:20.0-01:09:22.9 observation first hand
305
At the Vatican interfaith event attended by Jesse Michels, the Pope left without engaging with attendees and did not accept the chess piece from Kirsan Ilyumzhinov.
“the pope ended up like kind of scurrying off ... No, he didn't, like, engage with anybody.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:09:24.0-01:09:25.6 observation first hand
306
Kirsan Ilyumzhinov gave the chess piece to a senior cleric at the Vatican event as a representative of the Pope, in Jesse Michels's presence.
“And he gives him the chess piece because he's a representative of the Pope.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:10:01.2-01:10:03.4 observation first hand
307
Jesse Michels shook hands at the Vatican event with a man he was afterwards told by another attendee was the Cardinal Secretary of State of the Holy See.
“He goes, that was the cardinal secretary of state, which is the number two to the pope”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:10:12.2-01:10:18.1 testimony second hand
308
Jesse Michels considers the Cardinal Secretary of State to be the number two figure to the Pope, holding more political power than the Pope, whom he regards as a figurehead.
“that was the cardinal secretary of state, which is the number two to the pope and has more political power than the pope. The pope is like the figurehead.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:10:13.2-01:10:22.3 opinion first hand
309
A week or two after the Vatican interfaith event, Jesse Michels learned from an unstated source that the Cardinal Secretary of State of the Holy See had in certain instances expressed an interest in UFOs.
“then I find out a week or two later that in certain instances, he's expressed interest in UFOs”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:10:42.2-01:10:49.1 hearsay
310
Jon Stewart released a video asserting that Whitley Strieber is a CIA agent, and described it as news that would break the internet in 2026.
“he has this video he came out with saying, Whitley Striever is a CIA agent. He goes, this is going to break the internet news of 2026.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:12:17.0-01:12:23.2 hearsay third hand
311
Jesse Michels texted Whitley Strieber about Jon Stewart's claim that Strieber is a CIA agent, and Strieber called the claim absolutely nuts.
“I texted Whitley. I was like, is this legit, dude? And he's like... He goes, that's absolutely nuts.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:12:29.2-01:12:35.6 testimony second hand
312
The children featured in The Telepathy Tapes are described as autistic and are mostly nonverbal.
“you have the telepathy tapes and you have, like, the idea of, like, one sense goes. Like, all those kids are, they say autistic, but usually they're autistic. They're mostly nonverbal.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:18:32.0-01:18:41.0 observation first hand
313
Jesse Michels considers that senses become heightened when another is lost, so that a monk who has taken a vow of silence and spent long periods sealed away meditating would develop such an accentuation.
“there's definitely something around, like, an accentuation of senses when something else goes and spending that much time just hermetically sealed and meditating.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:18:45.6-01:18:56.8 opinion first hand
314
Jesse Michels considers that a contemplative monk's frame of mind would resemble that of a non-human being, or at least deviate far enough from an ordinary human's that such a person would be used to translate for an entity.
“Your paradigm is going to look much more like one of these beings likely. ... you're going to throw a person like that at any entity to try to translate for sure.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:19:02.6-01:19:12.8 opinion first hand
315
Jesse Michels considers that anyone trying to protect the legacy UFO programme would now use Steven Greer as a flytrap.
“Well, I think if you were trying to protect the program, I think you would use him now as a flytrap.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:25:27.0-01:25:34.6 opinion first hand
316
Steven Greer cut sections out of the Jonathan Wiggins interview.
“And literally, Stephen Greer just cut all these parts of the interview.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:25:51.6-01:25:56.5 testimony first hand
317
Peter Hill-Norton was head of the naval fleet in the United Kingdom.
“Lord, uh, Hild Norton, Admiral Hild Norton in the UK, who's head of the, you know, the Naval fleet there.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:25:59.8-01:26:06.4 administrative
318
James Fox obtained the interview with Peter Hill-Norton, and Steven Greer subsequently claimed it as his own and cut out James Fox's parts of the interview.
“James Fox got that interview and then Steven Greer was just like, that's my interview. And he like cut James Fox's parts of the interview.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:26:22.8-01:26:29.7 testimony first hand
319
Jesse Michels used to surf but surfs less since moving to Texas.
“I used to surf, and then I moved to Texas, and I don't surf as much there.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:28:29.2-01:28:32.5 testimony first hand
320
Jesse Michels travelled to Portugal to surf.
“I know you went to, like, Portugal to surf and stuff, but that's sick.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:28:34.0-01:28:36.8 testimony first hand
321
Jesse Michels has never encountered a shark while surfing.
“Chris Ramsay: You ever encountered sharks? Jesse Michels: No.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:28:45.8-01:28:47.8 testimony first hand
322
Jesse Michels believes the most recent death caused by a great white shark in Northern California, where great whites are numerous, occurred around 2013.
“Like even where there are a ton of great whites in Northern California, I think the last like death due to a great white shark was like 2013 or something crazy like that.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:28:56.9-01:29:06.1 opinion first hand
323
Jesse Michels currently surfs, runs and meditates, and spends a lot of his time on UFOs.
“But yeah, I don't know, surfing, running now, more meditating. ... Definitely spend a lot of time on UFOs and crazy shit.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:29:13.3-01:29:17.9 testimony first hand
324
Jesse Michels considers that daily UFO news coverage at its best amplifies material that would otherwise be drowned out by major political events, and at its worst is a celebrity-gossip treatment of the UFO subject.
“It's like you're covering and amplifying stuff that like needs to be amplified, especially because like all this stuff gets drowned out often by like the World War Three. ... i think in its worst form it's like uh sports center for or TMZ for UFOs”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:32:29.5-01:32:48.6 opinion first hand
325
Jesse Michels considers that the UFO subject touches on ontological and sacred truths about the nature of reality and that daily news coverage has turned it into a he-said-she-said food fight.
“you managed to take this like topic that touches on like ontological truths sacred truths like what is reality like you know itself like the most important questions and you've managed to turn it into like this he said she said like food fight thing”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:32:54.9-01:33:11.0 opinion first hand
326
During the recording of Jesse Michels's interview with Gary McKinnon, Jesse Michels's phone froze completely.
“That happened to me in my McKinnon interview... And I filmed it. Yeah, I was like, I can't. My phone is completely frozen.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 lines 407-419 observation first hand
327
The anomalous physical evidence associated with Peter Curry is biological: a hair said to have been pulled from a being.
“And anomalous physical evidence that's biological... You're talking about a hair that was pulled off the being.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 lines 97-99 testimony

Jesse Mitchells

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