Brief

Robert Bigelow

The claims the writer was given for Robert Bigelow, in the order they were given.

Claims 322

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1
The other person George Knapp met in 1989 related to the UFO mystery was billionaire businessman Robert Bigelow, who owned real estate and hotel properties in multiple states.
“The other person I met in 1989 related to the UFO mystery was a billionaire businessman named Robert Bigelow, who owned vast real estate and hotel properties in multiple states.”
Statement to Congress char:3359-3529 administrative first hand
2
Robert Bigelow began funding private UFO investigations as well as the work of UFO organisations.
“Bigelow began funding private UFO investigations as well the work of UFO organizations UFO.”
Statement to Congress char:3537-3624 administrative first hand
3
Robert Bigelow has spent more of his own money on UFO investigations, tens of millions of dollars, than any person in the history of the world.
“To date, he has spent more of his own money on UFO investigations than any person in the history of the world - tens of millions of dollars.”
Statement to Congress char:3629-3761 administrative first hand
4
In 1996, Robert Bigelow created his own research organisation, the National Institute for Discovery Science.
“In 1996, Bigelow created his own research organization, the National Institute for Discovery Science”
Statement to Congress char:3770-3863 administrative first hand
5
One of the topics of interest to Harry Reid, Robert Bigelow, and the National Institute for Discovery Science was Russia's ongoing interest in UFOs.
“One of the topics that was of interest to Reid, Bigelow, and NIDS was Russia's ongoing interest in UFOs.”
Statement to Congress char:4806-4905 administrative first hand
6
The contract for the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program was awarded to a subsidiary of Bigelow Aerospace, owned by Robert Bigelow.
“The contract for AAWSAP was awarded to a subsidiary of Bigelow Aerospace, owned by Robert Bigelow.”
Statement to Congress char:9970-10060 administrative first hand
7
Robert Bigelow said internationally, the United States is the most backward country in the world on the UFO issue.
““Internationally, we are the most backward country in the world on this issue,” Mr. Bigelow said in an interview.”
Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program 2017-12-16 char:10712-10814 opinion first hand
8
Robert Bigelow said American scientists are scared of being ostracised and American media is scared of the stigma regarding the UFO issue.
““Our scientists are scared of being ostracized, and our media is scared of the stigma.”
Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program 2017-12-16 char:10826-10904 opinion first hand
9
Robert Bigelow said China and Russia are much more open on the UFO issue and work on it with huge organisations within their countries.
“China and Russia are much more open and work on this with huge organizations within their countries.”
Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program 2017-12-16 char:10912-11002 opinion first hand
10
Robert Bigelow said smaller countries like Belgium, France, England, and South American countries like Chile are more open on the UFO issue, being proactive and willing to discuss the topic rather than held back by a juvenile taboo.
“Smaller countries like Belgium, France, England and South American countries like Chile are more open, too. They are proactive and willing to discuss this topic, rather than being held back by a juvenile taboo.””
Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program 2017-12-16 char:11013-11217 opinion first hand
11
Most of the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP) money went to an aerospace research company run by Robert Bigelow, a billionaire entrepreneur and longtime friend of Harry Reid.
“Most of the money went to an aerospace research company run by a billionaire entrepreneur and longtime friend of Mr. Reid’s, Robert Bigelow, who is currently working with NASA to produce expandable craft for humans to use in space.”
Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program 2017-12-16 char:1825-2120 administrative
12
Robert Bigelow is currently working with the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) to produce expandable craft for humans to use in space.
“who is currently working with NASA to produce expandable craft for humans to use in space”
Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program 2017-12-16 char:2095-2179 administrative
13
Robert Bigelow believes unidentified flying objects (UFOs) have visited Earth.
“On CBS’s “60 Minutes” in May, Mr. Bigelow said he was “absolutely convinced” that aliens exist and that U.F.O.s have visited Earth.”
Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program 2017-12-16 char:2187-2298 opinion first hand
14
Working with Robert Bigelow's Las Vegas-based company, the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP) produced documents that describe sightings of aircraft that seemed to move at very high velocities with no visible signs of propulsion.
“Working with Mr. Bigelow’s Las Vegas-based company, the program produced documents that describe sightings of aircraft that seemed to move at very high velocities with no visible signs of propulsion, or that hovered with no apparent means of lift.”
Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program 2017-12-16 char:2574-2816 observation
15
Harry Reid said his interest in UFOs came from Robert Bigelow.
“Mr. Reid said his interest in U.F.O.s came from Mr. Bigelow.”
Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program 2017-12-16 char:7093-7145 testimony first hand
16
Harry Reid said that in 2007 Robert Bigelow told him an official with the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) had approached Bigelow wanting to visit Bigelow's ranch in Utah, where he conducted research.
“In 2007, Mr. Reid said in the interview, Mr. Bigelow told him that an official with the Defense Intelligence Agency had approached him wanting to visit Mr. Bigelow’s ranch in Utah, where he conducted research.”
Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program 2017-12-16 char:7154-7354 hearsay second hand
17
Harry Reid said he met with Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) officials shortly after his meeting with Robert Bigelow and learned that they wanted to start a research program on UFOs.
“Mr. Reid said he met with agency officials shortly after his meeting with Mr. Bigelow and learned that they wanted to start a research program on U.F.O.s.”
Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program 2017-12-16 char:7365-7517 testimony first hand
18
The Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP) funding went to Robert Bigelow's company, Bigelow Aerospace, which hired subcontractors and solicited research for the program.
“The funding went to Mr. Bigelow’s company, Bigelow Aerospace, which hired subcontractors and solicited research for the program.”
Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program 2017-12-16 char:9233-9353 administrative
19
Under Robert Bigelow's direction, Bigelow Aerospace modified buildings in Las Vegas for the storage of metal alloys and other materials that Luis Elizondo and Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP) contractors said had been recovered from unidentified aerial phenomena.
“Under Mr. Bigelow’s direction, the company modified buildings in Las Vegas for the storage of metal alloys and other materials that Mr. Elizondo and program contractors said had been recovered from unidentified aerial phenomena.”
Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program 2017-12-16 char:9363-9581 hearsay second hand
20
Robert Bigelow, when asked if he feared people might think he was crazy for admitting he believed in extraterrestrials, said he did not care because it would not change the reality of what he knows.
““I don’t care. It’s not gonna make a difference. It’s not gonna change the reality of what I know.””
American Cosmic 2019 ch3:25328-25420 opinion first hand
21
Robert Bigelow founded Bigelow Aerospace, a company specialising in manufactured space equipment, mostly with his own funding in 1998.
“Bigelow founded his company, which specializes in manufactured space equipment, mostly with his own funding in 1998.”
American Cosmic 2019 char:11705-11816 administrative
22
None of the scientists brought in by Robert Bigelow to study the Skinwalker Ranch phenomenon were UFO believers by background.
“However, none of the scientists brought in by Bigelow to study this phenomenon were 'UFO believers' by background.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch15:12141-12244 administrative
23
The scope of Robert Bigelow's private National Institute for Discovery Science investigations went beyond Skinwalker Ranch and much of what NIDS uncovered remains confidential.
“But the scope of Bigelow's private NIDS investigations went beyond the Skinwalker Ranch and much of what NIDS uncovered remains confidential.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch15:18104-18232 administrative
24
The documents obtained from the Edgar Mitchell archive shed light on the extensive early work done in the late 1990s by Robert Bigelow's NIDS investigators into both UFOs and cattle mutilations.
“They shed more light on the extensive early work done in the late 1990s by Bigelow's NIDS investigators into both UFOs and cattle mutilations.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch15:18371-18501 administrative second hand
25
Edgar Mitchell was long a proponent of research into UAPs and served on the science advisory board of the National Institute for Discovery Science, retaining some of the confidential NIDS research reports from Skinwalker and other areas visited by the Bigelow-funded investigation team.
“Mitchell, long a proponent of research into UAPs, served on the science advisory board of NIDS and he retained some of the confidential NIDS research reports from Skinwalker and other areas visited by the Bigelow-funded investigation team.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch15:18514-18748 administrative
26
After reading the National Institute for Discovery Science files, it became clear that Robert Bigelow's investigators suspected the US government was up to something in the hills around Dulce, New Mexico.
“After reading the NIDS’ files, it became clear Bigelow’s investigators suspected the government was up to something in the Dulce hills.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch15:25408-25537 opinion second hand
27
Robert Bigelow's National Institute for Discovery Science team conducted investigations across the United States from 1995 to 2004, most of which remain confidential.
“Robert Bigelow is a shrewd and successful billionaire businessman, and most of what his NIDS team discovered across the US from 1995 to 2004 remains confidential.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch15:27308-27457 administrative
28
Robert Bigelow is a space industry entrepreneur who believes UAP are real craft.
“Bigelow is also a space industry entrepreneur who believes the UAPs are real craft.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch15:27471-27548 opinion first hand
29
Robert Bigelow founded Bigelow Aerospace, a space technology company based in Las Vegas, Nevada, in 1998.
“In 1998, he founded Bigelow Aerospace, a space technology company based in Las Vegas, Nevada.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch15:27880-27993 administrative
30
While doing his cattle mutilation investigation in the 1990s, Chuck Zukowski realised there was another well-resourced team of investigators covertly probing the same mystery, who were employees of billionaire businessman Robert Bigelow.
“While Chuck Zukowski was doing his investigation in the 1990s, he realised there was another well-resourced team of investigators covertly probing the same mystery. They were employees of a billionaire businessman named Robert Bigelow.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch15:7800-8027 observation second hand
31
Ben Mezrich said Robert Bigelow's team had been investigating UFOs for the past 20 years.
“'Turns out, for the past 20 years they have been investigating UFOs,' Mezrich says.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch15:8037-8114 opinion second hand
32
Federal Aviation Administration manuals specifically advised civilian pilots to report UAPs to Robert Bigelow, not to the Federal Aviation Administration.
“It also subsequently emerged that Federal Aviation Administration manuals specifically advised civilian pilots to report UAPs to Bigelow, not to the FAA.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch15:8121-8270 administrative second hand
33
Robert Bigelow made his fortune through a hotel chain business named Budget Suites of America.
“The enigmatic billionaire funding these investigations, Robert Bigelow, made his massive fortune through a hotel chain business named Budget Suites of America.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch15:8276-8427 administrative
34
In 1995, Robert Bigelow self-funded the creation of the National Institute for Discovery Science.
“Recognising that the UAP mystery merited ongoing investigation, in 1995, Bigelow self-funded the creation of the National Institute for Discovery Science, better known as NIDS.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch15:8436-8607 administrative
35
Robert Bigelow paid 200,000 US dollars to buy Skinwalker Ranch in 1996.
“Bigelow was so intrigued by the Sherman family's stories that the billionaire paid $200,000 to buy Skinwalker Ranch in 1996.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch15:8613-8732 administrative
36
Robert Bigelow funded full-time surveillance of Skinwalker Ranch as part of the National Institute for Discovery Science, ordering an investigation into the extraordinary paranormal claims.
“Bigelow funded full-time surveillance of Skinwalker Ranch as part of NIDS, ordering an investigation into the extraordinary paranormal claims.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch15:8738-8873 administrative
37
Eric Davis started working for Robert Bigelow's National Institute for Discovery Science in July 1996.
“Davis started working for Bob Bigelow's National Institute for Discovery Science in July 1996.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch15:9194-9283 administrative
38
The Bigelow team's Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems Applications Program (AAWSAP) investigations began in late 2008 and reportedly ended in 2012.
“The Bigelow team's investigations began in late 2008 and reportedly ended in 2012.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch17:19605-19682 administrative
39
Most of the Bigelow Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems Applications Program (AAWSAP) team were terminated by mid-2010.
“Most of the Bigelow team were terminated by mid-2010.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch17:19862-19910 administrative
40
Robert Bigelow sent Harry Reid the letter from the senior Defense Intelligence Agency physicist.
“It was billionaire aerospace entrepreneur Robert Bigelow who sent Reid the letter from the senior Defence Intelligence Agency physicist.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch17:2105-2231 administrative
41
Harry Reid did not name the Defense Intelligence Agency scientist but said he visited Robert Bigelow's Skinwalker Ranch, presumably around 2007-2008, and that what the scientist saw there convinced him it was a real phenomenon needing investigation.
“Reid did not name the scientist, but he said he visited Bigelow's Skinwalker Ranch, presumably about 2007–08, and what the DIA scientist saw there convinced him it was a real phenomenon that needed to be investigated.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch17:2242-2446 testimony first hand
42
Robert Bigelow said the Defense Intelligence Agency scientist told him that what shocked him at Skinwalker Ranch was an incident where a three-dimensional object suddenly materialised in front of him, resembling the triangular metallic 'bent bell' cover art on the front of the Mike Oldfield album Tubular Bells.
“Bob Bigelow has also revealed that the DIA scientist told him that what shocked him at the ranch was an incident where a three-dimensional object suddenly materialised in front of him, which looked like the triangular metallic 'bent bell' cover art on the front of the Mike Oldfield album Tubular Bells. 'That's the closest thing I can come to as to what the structure of this looked like,' Bigelow says he was told.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch17:2460-2873 hearsay second hand
43
Much of the Pentagon funding for the UAP investigation went to Robert Bigelow's company, Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies (BAASS).
“Much of the Pentagon funding went to a Robert Bigelow company, Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies (BAASS).”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch17:5141-5246 administrative
44
Robert Bigelow hired several of the same scientists who had served on his private decade-long National Institute for Discovery Science investigations to work on the Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies program.
“Bigelow hired several of the same scientists who had served on his private decade-long National Institute for Discovery Science investigations.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch17:5254-5409 administrative
45
Robert Bigelow holds the view that alien intelligences have been visiting Earth for a long time.
“Not giving a damn what anybody thinks of his opinions, Bigelow makes no secret of his view that alien intelligences have been visiting this planet for a long time.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch17:5425-5583 opinion first hand
46
Robert Bigelow has described his grandparents having a close encounter with a UAP that filled the windscreen of their car before taking off at a right angle and shooting away into the distance.
“He has described how his grandparents had a close encounter with a zooming UAP that filled up the windscreen of their car and then took off at a right angle and shot away into the distance.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch17:5589-5769 testimony first hand
47
An alien logo is painted on the exterior of Robert Bigelow's Bigelow Aerospace building in Las Vegas.
“He is so fascinated with aliens that an alien logo is painted on the exterior of his massive Bigelow Aerospace building in Las Vegas.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch17:5779-5906 observation
48
Robert Bigelow told CBS 60 Minutes correspondent Lara Logan that he was 'absolutely convinced' aliens exist.
“He even went on the top-rating US public affairs program CBS 60 Minutes and told correspondent Lara Logan that he was 'absolutely convinced' aliens exist.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch17:5913-6063 opinion first hand
49
Robert Bigelow believes there has been and is an existing extra-terrestrial (ET) presence on Earth.
“Bigelow: 'There has been and is an existing presence, an ET presence. And I spent millions and millions and millions – I probably spent more as an individual than anybody else in the United States has ever spent on this subject.'”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch17:6142-6352 opinion first hand
50
Robert Bigelow says he probably spent more as an individual on researching an extra-terrestrial presence than anybody else in the United States has ever spent on the subject.
“I probably spent more as an individual than anybody else in the United States has ever spent on this subject.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch17:6251-6352 opinion first hand
51
Lara Logan asked Robert Bigelow whether he imagined that space travel would encounter other forms of intelligent life, to which Bigelow responded that one does not have to go anywhere to find it, and when pressed on where exactly, said it is just like right under people's noses.
“Logan: 'Do you imagine that in our space travels we will encounter other forms of intelligent life?' Bigelow: 'You don't have to go anywhere.' Logan: 'You can find it here? Where exactly?' Bigelow's final answer was the most intriguing: 'It's just like right under people's noses.'”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch17:6745-7014 opinion first hand
52
Robert Bigelow is notoriously media shy, with the CBS 60 Minutes interview a notable exception.
“He is notoriously media shy, with the 60 Minutes interview a notable exception.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch17:7325-7396 administrative
53
Robert Bigelow hired Douglas Kurth in 2007.
“One of Bigelow's first hires in 2007 was former USS Nimitz FA-18 jet pilot Marine Lieutenant Colonel Douglas Kurth”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch17:7530-7641 administrative
54
An invitation to tender for the Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems Applications Program (AAWSAP) contract was issued by the Defense Intelligence Agency in August 2008 and Robert Bigelow was the sole bidder, securing $10 million funding for the first year with a five-year option.
“An invitation to tender for the contract was issued by the Defence Intelligence Agency in August 2008 and Bigelow was the sole bidder, securing $10 million funding for the first year, with a five-year option for the contract.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch17:8347-8563 administrative
55
Robert Bigelow has been outspoken in the past that he believes extra-terrestrials frequently travel to Earth.
“he also coyly hinted at the extra-terrestrial hypothesis by citing Bob Bigelow's past outspokenness that he believes aliens frequently travel to Earth”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch21:20282-20427 opinion first hand
56
Edgar Mitchell sat on the National Institute for Discovery Science's science advisory board while it conducted still-secret research for Robert Bigelow.
“The paperwork also offered insights into the still-secret research undertaken by billionaire aerospace businessman Robert Bigelow and his National Institute of Discovery Science, while Ed Mitchell sat on the NIDS science advisory board.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch25:14912-15142 administrative
57
Robert Bigelow invited Edgar Mitchell to serve on the advisory board of his National Institute for Discovery Science research organisation.
“That was why billionaire UAP investigator Robert Bigelow invited Mitchell to serve on the advisory board of his National Institute for Discovery Science research organisation.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch25:5021-5183 administrative
58
Eric Davis worked for Robert Bigelow's National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS).
“Davis, who worked for Robert Bigelow’s NIDS (National Institute of Discovery Science)”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:5049-5126 administrative
59
Robert Bigelow founded the National Institute for Discovery Science and once owned Skinwalker Ranch, the site of multiple UAP sightings.
“Bigelow founded the National Institute for Discovery Science and once owned Skinwalker Ranch, the site of multiple UAP sightings.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch37:7546-7665 administrative
60
The National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS), Robert Bigelow's research organisation, studied Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) and the paranormal during the 1990s.
“The National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS), his research organization, had studied UAP and the paranormal back in the 1990s.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch10:1387-1514 administrative first hand
61
Harry Reid counted Robert Bigelow among his friends.
“Senator Harry Reid counted Bob among his friends”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch10:1521-1562 administrative first hand
62
Robert Bigelow's firm Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies (BAASS) was the prime contractor for the programme Lue Elizondo joined.
“Bob’s firm, Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies (BAASS), was the program’s prime contractor.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch10:1575-1687 administrative first hand
63
The lead contractor flew in on his private Gulfstream V jet to attend the programme dinner in Roslyn, Virginia.
“The lead contractor was flying in on his private Gulfstream V jet to attend.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch10:422-491 observation first hand
64
Robert Bigelow's team planned to compile a database listing every factoid of the Brazil Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) events so it could be searched instantly and scanned for commonalities.
“Bob Bigelow’s team planned to compile a database listing every single factoid of the Brazil events, so it could be searched instantly and scanned for commonalities.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch10:4922-5072 administrative first hand
65
Robert Bigelow is a billionaire hotelier, developer, and aerospace magnate.
“The billionaire hotelier, developer, and aerospace magnate Robert Bigelow joined us.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch10:767-848 administrative first hand
66
Robert Bigelow was the lead contractor on the programme that Lue Elizondo joined.
“He was the contractor I had been told about.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch10:852-890 administrative first hand
67
Robert Bigelow was the contractor running the investigation at Skinwalker Ranch, Utah.
“Bob Bigelow was the contractor running point on the investigation”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch12:1029-1081 administrative first hand
68
Robert Bigelow bought the Skinwalker Ranch land in the mid-1990s so his scientists could study unusual occurrences long associated with the property.
“had bought the land in the mid-1990s so that his scientists could study some of the unusual occurrences long associated with the property”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch12:1099-1228 administrative first hand
69
Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies (BAASS) was owned by Robert Bigelow.
“...the primary firm was Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies (BAASS), owned by former hotel magnate Robert Bigelow...”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch16:12347-12455 administrative first hand
70
Robert Bigelow owned Skinwalker Ranch at the time of the Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Application Program (AAWSAP).
“...who, as I mentioned, at the time owned Skinwalker Ranch.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch16:12464-12514 administrative first hand
71
Robert Bigelow spent much of his own money funding some of the costs of the Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Application Program (AAWSAP).
“He spent much of his own money fronting some of the costs for AAWSAP.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch16:12600-12662 observation first hand
72
William "Will" Livingston served as a medical advisor to the Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Application Program (AAWSAP)/Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP) and Robert Bigelow's National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS).
“Will served as a medical advisor to AAWSAP/AATIP and Bigelow's NIDS.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch16:25278-25341 administrative
73
John F. Schuessler, one of the early Bigelow researchers, collected examples of civilian biological effects from UAP encounters dating back to 1950.
“One of the early Bigelow researchers, John F. Schuessler, collected examples of civilian bio-effects dating back to 1950.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch18:6149-6265 administrative
74
Robert Bigelow's initial motivation for starting the Bigelow Podcast came from the publication of James Lacatski's books in 2023, 2025 and 2026.
“So I think the initial push was some time back with the publishing of Jim McCasky's book in 2023”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:00:42.6-00:00:54.1 testimony first hand
75
Robert Bigelow met with Donald Trump and gave him help and ideas on UFO disclosure in an advisory capacity.
“And then later was when I was with the president and was doing the disclosure advisory kind of thing with him and giving him some help and ideas and so on.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:01:06.9-00:01:18.0 testimony first hand
76
Robert Bigelow considers his own UFO disclosure advocacy to be working against the direction already decided upon by the Pentagon.
“I realized that that I was rowing upstream on this thing against the tide, and the tide was what the Pentagon had already decided they were going to do”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:01:19.7-00:01:31.4 opinion first hand
77
Robert Bigelow considers the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO) to be a disguise and a probably fraudulent effort to squash UFO disclosure.
“and what AARO actually meant as a disguise. probably a fraudulent effort to squash disclosure.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:01:31.9-00:01:42.9 opinion first hand
78
Robert Bigelow considers it unfair to Donald Trump that the effort to squash UFO disclosure is going on behind his back.
“And so I thought, well, this isn't fair to the president if this is going on behind his back.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:01:44.1-00:01:50.4 opinion first hand
79
Lawrence Rockefeller convened a group at the Rockefeller Ranch at the base of the Grand Teton mountain range in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, to discuss the pros and cons of his position on UFO disclosure.
“That's a photo of a group of us that Lawrence Rockefeller convened at the Rockefeller Ranch right at the base of the Grand Teton Mountain Range in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. And we were there to discuss the pros and cons of his position on disclosure way back then.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:03:27.6-00:03:48.2 testimony first hand
80
Linda Moulton Howe, John Mack and Bruce Maccabee attended the meeting Lawrence Rockefeller convened at the Rockefeller Ranch in Jackson Hole, Wyoming.
“Linda Howe was there, John Mack was there, Bruce McAbee, a number of other folks were there that are well known.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:03:51.8-00:03:58.0 testimony first hand
81
Lawrence Rockefeller's position was to convince Bill Clinton, president at the time, to step up, produce the disclosure necessary about the UFO phenomena and admit that it exists.
“And his take was to convince the president, which at the time was Bill Clinton, that he needed to step up and produce the disclosure that was necessary about the phenomena and admit that it exists.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:03:59.0-00:04:17.1 testimony first hand
82
Robert Bigelow was not sure that Bill Clinton knew about the UFO phenomena.
“I wasn't sure that he knew, that the president knew.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:04:18.9-00:04:21.6 testimony first hand
83
Robert Bigelow asked Harry Reid to take a book to Bill Clinton and ask him whether he had really said what the book reported.
“So I said to Harry, I said, look, I want you to take this book. and show it to Bill and say, did you really say this?”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:04:42.5-00:04:50.3 testimony first hand
84
A book quoted Bill Clinton as saying that before he left office he wanted to know who really killed John F. Kennedy and what all the UFO and extraterrestrial material was about.
“And in there, President Clinton had said, before I leave office, I want to know who really killed JFK and what is all this UFO ET stuff all about?”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:04:51.0-00:05:02.9 hearsay second hand
85
When Harry Reid asked Bill Clinton whether he had really said he wanted to know about UFOs before leaving office, Clinton confirmed that he had and replied "wouldn't you like to know?".
“And Harry said, did you really say that? Yes. And he said, wouldn't you like to know?”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:05:04.1-00:05:09.7 hearsay second hand
86
Harry Reid sat in on many National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS) meetings.
“Well, Harry had sat in on many of our meetings for NIDS numerous times.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:05:10.2-00:05:14.8 testimony first hand
87
The National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS) meetings included people from government agencies, military people, researchers and people who worked at Los Alamos National Laboratory.
“we had world-class people in that room. We had people from agencies. We had military people. We had terrific researchers, people that worked at Los Alamos.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:05:19.5-00:05:29.6 testimony first hand
88
Astronauts Edgar Mitchell and Harrison Schmitt attended the meetings Robert Bigelow describes.
“Astronauts. We had Edgar Mitchell and Jack Schmidt there.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:05:33.1-00:05:37.7 testimony first hand
89
A United States Air Force general attended the meetings Robert Bigelow describes.
“We had a military Air Force general there.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:05:38.5-00:05:40.6 testimony first hand
90
Ian Stevenson, Bruce Greyson, Emily Cook and Jessica Utts attended the meetings Robert Bigelow describes.
“You know, we had Ian Stevenson was there and Bruce Grayson was there and Emily Cook was there. Jessica Utz was there.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:05:40.9-00:05:49.4 testimony first hand
91
Marty Pilch and others who were directors of Los Alamos National Laboratory attended the meetings Robert Bigelow describes.
“so uh we had a Marty Pilch and others that were directors of of Los Alamos”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:05:52.7-00:05:58.2 testimony first hand
92
Christopher Green, Hal Puthoff and Jacques Vallee attended the meetings Robert Bigelow describes.
“and uh Christopher Green, Hall Puthoff uh Jacques Vallée was there so we had the cream of the crop of thinkers”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:06:01.0-00:06:09.8 testimony first hand
93
Robert Bigelow regards the two big subjects as whether we are alone and what happens to a person after death.
“the two big ones are we alone and what happens to you after you die right”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:06:12.6-00:06:17.6 opinion first hand
94
Robert Bigelow found out that Bill Clinton did not know about the UFO subject, and did not get a chance to tell Lawrence Rockefeller.
“So I didn't have a chance to tell Lawrence that I had found out that Clinton didn't know.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:06:22.7-00:06:29.6 testimony first hand
95
Lawrence Rockefeller was under the impression that Bill Clinton did know about UFOs and had been read in, and intended to convince him to admit it and participate in starting the disclosure process.
“No, that he did know. He was read in. And he was going to try to convince him to confess, to admit, to participate in the disclosure process.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:06:34.3-00:06:47.8 testimony first hand
96
Robert Bigelow knows nothing about Hillary Clinton being involved with Lawrence Rockefeller on UFO disclosure.
“George Knapp: Hillary Clinton was involved in this at some point with the Rockefellers, right? With Lawrence Rockefeller. Robert Bigelow: I don't know anything about Hillary being involved.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:06:49.6-00:06:55.0 testimony first hand
97
All three of James Lacatski's books were briefed and scrubbed by the Pentagon and the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) through the Defense Office of Prepublication and Security Review (DOPSR) process.
“this has been sanctioned, this has been briefed and scrubbed as have all of his books, all three of his books, from the Pentagon and the- ... The DOPSR Process. ... The DIA, yeah, yeah.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:07:46.0-00:07:56.9 administrative first hand
98
In the introduction to his book, James Lacatski wrote that 2021-06-25 was a revolutionary day when the Office of the Director of National Intelligence made the long-awaited announcement that UFOs were real.
“So he writes in the introduction here, on June 25, 2021, was a revolutionary day when the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, ODNI, made the long-awaited announcement that UFOs were real.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:07:57.7-00:08:14.0 administrative second hand
99
The Office of the Director of National Intelligence released a report entitled Preliminary Assessment: Unidentified Aerial Phenomena, providing a sober assessment that UFOs were no longer to be ridiculed and mocked.
“In releasing their report entitled Preliminary Assessment, Unidentified Aerial Phenomena, ODNI provided their sober assessments that UFOs no longer were to be ridiculed and mocked.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:08:23.0-00:08:39.6 administrative second hand
100
Media coverage of the Office of the Director of National Intelligence UAP preliminary assessment included the statement that the phenomena being seen are not simply sensor artefacts but things that physically exist.
“Part of the media coverage included statements like, we absolutely do believe that we're seeing not simply sensor artifacts. There are things that physically exist. They confirmed it.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:08:40.4-00:08:54.3 administrative second hand
101
Five months after the Office of the Director of National Intelligence UAP preliminary assessment, Deputy Secretary Kathleen Hicks announced the creation of a new Pentagon-run organisation called the Airborne Object Identification and Management Synchronization Group (AOIMSG).
“Then go forward and five months later, Deputy Secretary Kathleen Hicks announced the creation of a new organization run by the Pentagon called Airborne Object Identification and Management Synchronization Group.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:08:56.3-00:09:14.4 administrative second hand
102
On 2022-07-15, Kathleen Hicks renamed the Airborne Object Identification and Management Synchronization Group and expanded its scope, calling it the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO).
“Then on July 15th, 2022, Kathleen Hicks renames it again and changes it and expands the scope, and she calls it the All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office, AARO, which exists today”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:09:29.1-00:09:45.2 administrative second hand
103
Robert Bigelow regards the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO) as the tip of the sword in a government effort to push back against UFO disclosure.
“AARO, which exists today, I think, as the tip of the sword, okay, in this effort by the government. ... To push back.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:09:43.0-00:09:52.2 opinion first hand
104
Robert Bigelow is unsure how much Donald Trump knows about the government effort to push back against UFO disclosure, but believes he should know.
“And I'm not sure how much the president today, Trump, knows about this, but he should.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:09:54.2-00:09:59.1 opinion first hand
105
James Lacatski wrote that close coordination between Pentagon spokesman Susan Gough and Sean Kirkpatrick became obvious after the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office report on UFOs was released on 2023-01-12.
“there's a close coordination, Lacatski writes, between of the Pentagon spokesman Susan Gao and Kirkpatrick, Dr. Kirkpatrick, became obvious after the AARO Report on UFOs was released on January 12, 2023.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:10:02.3-00:10:16.8 opinion second hand
106
The All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office report on UFOs released on 2023-01-12 was notable for its blandness and lack of detail.
“The report was notable for its blandness and lack of detail”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:10:20.4-00:10:23.4 opinion second hand
107
The All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office report on UFOs released on 2023-01-12 noted that 510 reports had been accumulated by 2022-08-30.
“and noted that 510 reports have been accumulated by August 30 of 2022.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:10:24.4-00:10:29.8 measurement second hand
108
On 2023-04-19, Sean Kirkpatrick testified before Kirsten Gillibrand's Senate Armed Services Committee.
“Then on April the 19th, 2023, Kirkpatrick testified before Senator Gillibrand's Senate Armed Services Committee.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:10:34.5-00:10:42.7 administrative second hand
109
In his testimony on 2023-04-19, Sean Kirkpatrick underscored that only a very small percentage of UAP reports display signatures that could reasonably be described as anomalous.
“I want to underscore today that only a very small percentage of UAP reports display signatures that could reasonably be described as anomalous.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:10:50.8-00:11:00.0 testimony third hand
110
In his testimony on 2023-04-19, Sean Kirkpatrick said the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office had found no credible evidence thus far of extraterrestrial activity, off-world technology, or objects that defy the known laws of physics.
“Kirkpatrick added, AARO has found no credible evidence thus far of extraterrestrial activity, off-world technology, or objects that defy the known laws of physics. This is April 19, 2023.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:11:02.7-00:11:16.3 testimony third hand
111
Robert Bigelow and George Knapp have investigated many cattle mutilation cases in which the odour from the animals burns the throat of anyone who gets close.
“we've been on a lot of cattle mutilation cases and they're so bad that's so rank this the odor and the smell from those animals it burns your throat you know to to to breathe and get in anywhere close to them”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:11:51.0-00:12:01.4 observation first hand
112
Robert Bigelow considers there to be a serious contamination pushing against UFO disclosure.
“i think that we have a contamination here which is pushing against disclosure this serious, this really serious.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:12:07.8-00:12:16.2 opinion first hand
113
Robert Bigelow considers that UFOs have national security implications and that Harry Reid was right about this.
“this is this has national security implications because Harry Reid was was right. Senator Reid was right.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:12:42.9-00:12:49.0 opinion first hand
114
The Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) started in September 2008.
“you're talking about by the end of May 2009, the program started in September of 2008. Our program, AAWSAP.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:12:56.1-00:13:05.2 administrative first hand
115
Robert Bigelow regards the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) as the only real UFO programme, and the mother of all programmes since Project Blue Book ended in 1969.
“And that was the only real program. That was the mother of all programs since Blue Book ended in '69. It was terminated.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:13:07.1-00:13:16.1 opinion first hand
116
Project Blue Book was terminated in 1969.
“That was the mother of all programs since Blue Book ended in '69.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:13:08.8-00:13:14.7 administrative first hand
117
Robert Bigelow regards Project Sign, Project Grudge, the Robertson Panel and the Condon Report as cover-up efforts, every single one of them.
“you had Project Sign, Project Grudge, the Robinson Panel, and the Coup de Gras, the Condon Report, all completed. cover up efforts every single one of them cover up efforts”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:13:20.0-00:13:32.9 opinion first hand
118
Robert Bigelow regards Project Blue Book as also having been a cover-up effort.
“and it turned out i think if i'm not mistaken that Blue Book was also”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:13:33.8-00:13:36.8 opinion first hand
119
The Defense Intelligence Agency started the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP).
“And so all these years, DIA starts the AAWSAP program”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:13:42.2-00:13:46.4 administrative first hand
120
Robert Bigelow regards the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) as the first honest approach to a discovery process about UFOs and other paranormal events.
“and for the first time, you have an honest approach to discovery process, to trying to learn what everything is about, and all the other paranormal events.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:13:47.5-00:13:58.6 opinion first hand
121
The Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) was a UFO programme.
“And we were a UFO program.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:13:59.0-00:14:01.8 testimony first hand
122
James Lacatski included paranormal events in the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) because he knew that ancillary events occur that belong in the paranormal category.
“The wisdom of Jim Lacatski was great because he knew that there are ancillary kinds of events that occur that are really paranormal basket kinds of things.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:14:03.6-00:14:15.2 opinion first hand
123
Robert Bigelow considers consciousness to be foundational to everything and ultimately responsible for everything in the universe.
“Consciousness ultimately is responsible for everything in the universe that you can think of. Everything. Everything.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:14:31.9-00:14:38.8 opinion first hand
124
Robert Bigelow considers that there is proof a person survives their body.
“First of all, we have proof that you survive your container, which is a huge friggin' step for people to digest”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:14:54.3-00:15:01.4 opinion first hand
125
Robert Bigelow considers that people with certain religious backgrounds, confirmed staunch atheists and staunch agnostics cannot digest the idea that a person survives bodily death.
“If you have certain religious backgrounds, or you're a confirmed staunch atheist, or maybe a staunch agnostic kind of person, you can't digest this.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:15:05.2-00:15:14.2 opinion first hand
126
Robert Bigelow has had personal demonstrations and exhibitions of multiple different kinds of anomalous things that really happened.
“if you've had demonstrations personal demonstrations and exhibitions of things uh it really helps and sometimes you recall what you witnessed and what you saw ... yeah it really happened those things really happened you know multiple different kinds of things”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:15:27.9-00:15:49.2 testimony first hand
127
Robert Bigelow considers the universe to be an open system that is not closed or finite and therefore had no beginning.
“the probability, my opinion is, the Interverse is an open system. It's not closed. It's not finite, which means it didn't have a beginning. Open systems don't have a start and a stop.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:15:56.7-00:16:12.3 opinion first hand
128
Robert Bigelow initiated an essay contest in 2021 which took the entire year and was about proving beyond a reasonable doubt that survival of permanent bodily death is real.
“we have on the table over here the results from a contest that we initiated in 2021. It took the entire year. And it was about proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the survival of permanent bodily death is real.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:16:27.8-00:16:45.6 testimony first hand
129
Robert Bigelow considers that after bodily death a person becomes a function of thought, without a body.
“That we go on. And so you become a function of thought and so you say well how is that possible without a body without a container that's impossible it's not”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:16:48.2-00:16:58.6 opinion first hand
130
Robert Bigelow regards the double-slit experiment in quantum mechanics as only the bare tip of the iceberg regarding the power of thought.
“it's not just because the Heisenberg Double Slit Experiment in Quantum Mechanics that's the bare tip of the iceberg”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:17:08.2-00:17:13.9 opinion first hand
131
Robert Jahn and Brenda Dunne ran a laboratory in the basement of the chemistry building at Princeton University.
“That is Dr. Bob Jahn and Brenda Dunne in the basement of the chemistry building in Princeton had their laboratory”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:17:15.0-00:17:21.6 administrative first hand
132
In Robert Jahn and Brenda Dunne's Princeton University experiment, a computer screen showed a static line and a random event generator produced a second line, with electrons flipped a million times a second so the result should always be an equal 50-50 split.
“a computer screen that had a static line across the screen ... And then you had a random event generator causing a second line to occur. And those electrons are being flipped a million times a second by the random event generator. So it should always be 50-50.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:17:25.3-00:17:44.4 administrative first hand
133
In Robert Jahn and Brenda Dunne's Princeton University experiment, a person concentrating could make the random event generator's line deviate above or below the static line, and it worked.
“So if you're sitting there concentrating, if you're trying to concentrate, you can make a deviation of that line above the static or below the static line. And it works.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:17:49.2-00:17:58.0 observation second hand
134
Robert Jahn ran hundreds of thousands of trials of the random event generator experiment, using many Princeton University students, and wrote a book on the work.
“And he had hundreds of thousands of trials. He had a lot of the students there from Princeton doing those trials, and he wrote a terrific book on this.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:17:59.1-00:18:08.1 administrative first hand
135
Robert Bigelow considers that consciousness can have an effect on subatomic particles by pure observation, causing deviations according to the observer's intent.
“consciousness can have an effect on material products, on materials, on...by just pure observation, you can have an effect on subatomic particles. ... And you cause deviations according to your intent.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:18:12.8-00:18:35.9 opinion first hand
136
Robert Bigelow considers that consciousness has an effect in our dimension that can be initiated through clairvoyance, precognition, remote viewing and mediumship.
“So consciousness has an effect in our dimension that we can initiate through various other kinds of things, clairvoyance, precognition, remote viewing, Mediumship.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:18:39.2-00:18:54.9 opinion first hand
137
Robert Bigelow considers that not all mediums are fraudulent and that there are some gold-star remote viewers.
“There are a lot of ways that not all mediums are fraudulent. And there's some gold star remote viewers.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:18:56.2-00:19:02.8 opinion first hand
138
Hal Puthoff and Christopher Green were heavily involved in remote viewing work at Stanford Research Institute (SRI).
“And SRI, Stanford Research Institute, and friends of ours that we know, Hal Puthoff and Kit Green were very involved in that.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:19:04.9-00:19:13.3 administrative first hand
139
Stanford Research Institute (SRI) studied Uri Geller extensively.
“and they studied people like Uri Geller extensively. and phenomenal performers.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:19:14.5-00:19:20.6 administrative first hand
140
One of the findings of the Stanford Research Institute (SRI) work was that most people have the ability to produce anomalous results that the normal five senses should not be able to produce, using a sixth sense.
“And one of the things they learned that's kind of fun is that most people have the ability to function to produce anomalous results that our normal five senses shouldn't be able to produce. And you're not using those, you're using a sixth kind of sense.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:19:21.9-00:19:41.0 observation second hand
141
The Hubble Space Telescope could only see out about 13.5 billion light years.
“until the Hubble became antiquated, because it could only see out about 13.5 billion light years.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:20:01.5-00:20:07.2 measurement first hand
142
The James Webb Space Telescope sees out to 33 to 34 billion light years.
“Well, the Webb telescope goes 33 billion, 34 billion light years, and then it becomes very difficult for the theory.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:20:08.4-00:20:15.7 measurement first hand
143
Robert Bigelow regards the Big Bang as just a theory and not fact.
“And remember, Big Bang is just a theory. It's not fact. It has nothing to do with fact.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:20:16.0-00:20:20.1 opinion first hand
144
Robert Bigelow considers that string theory required about eleven different theories to be able to function and close the loop.
“And it took about, what, 11 different theories for string theory to even to be able to function, to close the donut, to close the loop, to make it work.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:20:48.1-00:20:58.2 opinion first hand
145
Robert Bigelow considers that string theory proponents used hand calculations, a euphemism for forcing the mathematics to work, and made up the constants for what existed before the Big Bang.
“And they used hand calcs, which is a euphemism for forcing the math to work. And they made up the constants as to what existed pre-bang.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:20:59.1-00:21:12.1 opinion first hand
146
Robert Bigelow considers the Big Bang theory to lack any explanation of where the instructions came from to cause the expansion, or where the initial small dense object came from.
“And you have no explanation for where did the instructions come from to cause the expansion. And by the way, where did the initial cube come from?”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:21:29.1-00:21:37.5 opinion first hand
147
Robert Bigelow considers that the Big Bang theory implies a density of mass that is impossible for the amount of mass already observed.
“And you're talking about a density of mass that is impossible for the amount of mass that we already see.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:21:38.4-00:21:46.2 opinion first hand
148
All material objects eventually decay as a function of entropy.
“All material objects eventually run out of control and they decay and that is a function of entropy.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:21:51.8-00:21:59.8 opinion first hand
149
Robert Bigelow considers that galaxies do not break up as entropy says they should after a billion or two years, and instead last 10 to 14 billion years.
“They don't discombobulate like they should after it's a billion or two years. And they're lasting 12, 10, 12, maybe 14 billion years. They shouldn't. There's a problem here.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:22:14.8-00:22:29.5 opinion first hand
150
Dark energy and dark matter make up 95 to 96 per cent of all the energy in the universe and have not been identified.
“The problem is we have a huge amount of energy we can't identify. I think I know what it is, and they have words like dark energy and dark matter, okay? Which is 95, 96% of all the friggin' energy in the universe.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:22:31.3-00:22:46.5 measurement first hand
151
Robert Bigelow considers that the dark energy component prevents entropy and provides order in huge systems such as galaxies.
“But part of it, the dark energy part, prevents entropy. It provides order. so that these huge systems, these gigantic systems”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:22:50.4-00:23:01.7 opinion first hand
152
The Milky Way is about 150,000 light years in elliptical length and about 75,000 light years in diameter.
“like the Milky Way is like 150,000 light years, and it's elliptical in length and about 75,000 light years in diameter.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:23:02.1-00:23:09.8 measurement first hand
153
Each light year is about 9.7 trillion kilometres.
“Each light year is six trillion miles”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:23:11.9-00:23:13.0 measurement first hand
154
The nearest star is about 39 trillion kilometres away, four light years.
“and the nearest star is 24 trillion miles away, four light years, so huge distances.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:23:15.0-00:23:18.8 measurement first hand
155
Only 4 to 5 per cent of the entire energy of the universe can be found.
“We can only find 4% to 5% of the entire energy of the universe. Where did the other 96%, 95%? What is it?”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:23:31.1-00:23:40.4 measurement first hand
156
Robert Bigelow considers that electrons are reactionary according to human observation and take a specific location only upon measurement or being watched.
“you start at the itty bitty electrons. which are reactionary according to human observation, according to consciousness. And then they become in a specific location upon measurement or being noticed or being watched.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:23:48.2-00:24:05.8 opinion first hand
157
Robert Bigelow considers that if the human body does not need its physical container it exists 100 per cent in consciousness as thought.
“If the human body doesn't need its container, it's 100% existing in consciousness as thought.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:24:23.6-00:24:30.5 opinion first hand
158
Robert Bigelow considers that our three-dimensional system coexists with another dimension in which consciousness exists.
“we definitely have proof that we have a three-dimensional system, not counting time as a fourth dimension ... and we coexist with another dimension. There's a consciousness kind of existing dimension.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:24:33.5-00:24:50.7 opinion first hand
159
The purpose of the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies essay contest 2021 was to provide proof of survival of bodily death, with entrants required to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt as if proving to a court.
“the point of the whole damn essay program, you know, was to provide proof... providing you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt. You're proving to the court. that this is real.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:24:58.9-00:25:15.7 administrative first hand
160
The Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies essay contest 2021 set a limit of no more than 25,000 words per essay.
“So we said, we want no more than 25,000 words per essay.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:25:04.8-00:25:09.5 administrative first hand
161
The Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies essay contest 2021 was judged by seven judges.
“Well, we had seven amazing judges.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:25:26.5-00:25:31.6 administrative first hand
162
Brian Weiss was one of the judges of the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies essay contest 2021.
“Dr. Brian Weiss, I don't want to name them all”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:25:33.3-00:25:35.2 administrative first hand
163
The judges of the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies essay contest 2021 were people who had studied the paranormal for much of their lives.
“people who had been students and studying of the paranormal a lot of their lives, and they had a lot of information to be able to judge the good, bad, and the ugly of an essay.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:25:36.8-00:25:49.3 administrative first hand
164
Jeffrey Mishlove won first place in the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies essay contest 2021.
“uh Jeffrey Mishlove won first place”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:25:50.7-00:25:52.1 administrative first hand
165
Leo Ruickbie won third place in the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies essay contest 2021.
“Leo Ruickbie won third place”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:25:53.1-00:25:55.1 administrative first hand
166
Leo Ruickbie works for Robert Bigelow's organisation.
“Leo Ruickbie won third place and he works here for us”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:25:53.1-00:25:57.2 administrative first hand
167
Pim van Lommel won second place in the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies essay contest 2021.
“and then Pim van Lommel uh Pim van Lommel the dutch doctor uh he won second place”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:25:58.6-00:26:04.4 administrative first hand
168
Pim van Lommel is a Dutch doctor.
“Pim van Lommel the dutch doctor”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:26:01.0-00:26:02.5 administrative first hand
169
The Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies is the primary focus of Robert Bigelow's work.
“we're talking about BIX the bigelow institute for consciousness studies which is the primary focus of your work”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:26:04.8-00:26:09.4 observation first hand
170
The Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies essay contest 2021 received 1,400 entries.
“So we had 1,400, we had 38 countries represented.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:26:19.2-00:26:21.3 measurement first hand
171
Entrants to the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies essay contest 2021 came from 38 countries.
“we had 38 countries represented”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:26:20.2-00:26:21.3 measurement first hand
172
The judges of the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies essay contest 2021 shortlisted the entries down to about 205 essays.
“And so the judges downselected to 205, something like that, essays.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:26:49.9-00:26:54.9 measurement first hand
173
The judges of the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies essay contest 2021 had five months to read the shortlisted essays.
“And they had five months to read all these things.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:26:55.8-00:26:57.5 administrative first hand
174
The Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies essay contest 2021 was originally planned to award first, second and third prizes totalling 950,000 US dollars.
“I thought, okay, we're going to have a first, second, and third prize. $950,000.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:27:00.5-00:27:07.4 measurement first hand
175
About 60 days before their decisions were due, the judges of the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies essay contest 2021 argued among themselves that the entries could not be compressed into three winners, prompting Robert Bigelow to expand the prize list.
“about 60 days before they should give their decisions, they're all arguing, the judges, between themselves. There's no way they can compact this into three winners. So we have to expand it.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:27:13.4-00:27:22.0 testimony first hand
176
The Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies essay contest 2021 ended with 28 winners.
“So now we are at 28 winners and $1,800,000 in awards”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:27:27.8-00:27:33.6 measurement first hand
177
The Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies essay contest 2021 awarded a total of 1,800,000 US dollars in prizes.
“So now we are at 28 winners and $1,800,000 in awards”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:27:27.8-00:27:33.6 measurement first hand
178
Winners of the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies essay contest 2021 also received crystal trophies in addition to prize money.
“plus really nice crystal trophies to put on your mantle”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:27:34.7-00:27:37.8 administrative first hand
179
The Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies awards party on 2021-12-04 was held at the Bigelow Aerospace plant in Las Vegas.
“Yeah december 4th of '21 we had a big party at the plant”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:28:02.8-00:28:06.6 testimony first hand
180
The bay of the Bigelow Aerospace plant in Las Vegas where the 2021-12-04 Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies awards party was held has a ceiling approximately 24 metres high.
“in one of the big uh maze there you know with a 80 foot ceiling on it”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:28:07.4-00:28:12.5 measurement first hand
181
At the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies awards party on 2021-12-04, winners spoke about their awards and were presented with cheques and trophies.
“And everybody got up to talk about their awards and everything was presented to them, the check and the trophies and all.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:28:17.1-00:28:23.9 testimony first hand
182
Robert Bigelow has been involved in UFO research for a long time at the highest levels, with government agencies, government officials and presidents.
“you've been involved in UFO research for a long time at the highest levels with government agencies, government officials, presidents, et cetera.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:28:48.6-00:28:57.7 observation first hand
183
Robert Bigelow has learned things about UFOs that he has not shared with the public.
“You've learned a lot of things that you have not shared with the public.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:28:58.0-00:29:00.4 observation first hand
184
Robert Bigelow intends to continue disclosing what he knows in the Bigelow Podcast for as long as he has and as much as it takes.
“George Knapp: How far you're willing to go now in this format? Robert Bigelow: As long as I have and as much as it takes.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:29:01.5-00:29:07.7 opinion first hand
185
Robert Bigelow considers the universe an open system in which dark energy and dark matter make up 95 to 96 per cent of its power and prevent entropy and the disintegration of galaxies.
“So we have an open system in the universe. We have a power that's 95, 96% of it that we don't know what it is, dark energy and dark matter. But it controls, we don't have entropy. We don't have disintegration of our galaxies.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:29:17.8-00:29:36.0 opinion first hand
186
Test participants attempting to influence an electron displayed on a monitor by intention grunt, strain and jump up and down in an effort to make it happen.
“And the people are funny, they're performers. They'll grunt, they'll strain, they'll jump up and down, all kinds of things to try and make it happen.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:29:58.4-00:30:04.3 observation first hand
187
Most participants in consciousness experiments attempting to influence an electron on a monitor produce some effect, and some produce substantial effects.
“And most of them have some effect. Some have really good effects, substantial effects.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:30:04.8-00:30:09.5 observation first hand
188
Success in influencing an electron on a monitor by intention depends on an individual relationship and an individual type of technique.
“But it's an individual relationship that you try to establish as to your technique, as individual type of technique.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:30:10.4-00:30:18.9 opinion first hand
189
Research indicates that approximately 100 billion people have lived and died on Earth.
“So the research says, that on the planet Earth, just one little planet, that 100 billion people have died?”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:30:23.8-00:30:33.6 measurement second hand
190
Robert Bigelow initially disbelieved the figure of 100 billion people having lived and died on Earth, given the current world population of about 8.25 billion.
“I didn't believe this at first. I said, no, I don't know how we can be at eight and a quarter billion.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:30:34.8-00:30:40.1 testimony first hand
191
The high cumulative human death toll is explained by short lifespans, high birth rates and many people dying young, with longevity only arriving recently in human history.
“Well, apparently it's a function of that a lot of people didn't live very long. A lot of propagation, a lot of births happened. A lot of people died very young. So you didn't have longevity for most of mankind's existence until just recently.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:30:46.7-00:31:01.8 observation first hand
192
The human population took until 1800 to reach its first billion, and reached the second billion by 1900.
“Yeah, we took till 1800 to acquire the first billion. 1900, though, we got the second billion.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:31:03.3-00:31:08.5 measurement first hand
193
The human population currently adds roughly a billion people every decade.
“And now we're doing it just like about every decade. It's really sped up.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:31:15.5-00:31:19.4 measurement first hand
194
Robert Bigelow expects the human population to reach about 12 billion before long and considers that a possible density tipping point.
“And we'll be at maybe 12 billion, not before too long, and that might be a density tipping point kind of issue.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:31:20.5-00:31:27.6 opinion first hand
195
The observable universe extends to at least 34 billion light years as a radius, not a diameter.
“we know at least for out to 34 billion light years and and that's a radius that's not that's not a diameter that's a radius”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:31:53.1-00:32:01.9 measurement first hand
196
Robert Bigelow holds that consciousness that has passed over exists in a different, more powerful form than that of living people, with greater abilities than a person has in their body.
“What's the size of the consciousness that has passed over and now exists in a different form that's more powerful than we and you and I are sitting here? You have more ability, George, you will have more ability than you have in your containers.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:32:09.6-00:32:26.6 opinion first hand
197
Robert Bigelow holds that a person who survives bodily death becomes immortal as thought, a concept he finds hard to relate to because nothing known to humans lasts forever.
“And you become a word that is hard to digest, the word immortal... It's goofy that you become immortal as thought. It is totally goofy thinking because we can't relate to anything that's immortal.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:32:31.1-00:32:50.7 opinion first hand
198
Robert Bigelow holds that if survival of permanent bodily death is real, the accumulated body of consciousness is almost inconceivably huge.
“And you do survive permanent bodily death. That's an enormous body of consciousness that's almost inconceivably huge.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:33:20.9-00:33:31.8 opinion first hand
199
Research into survival of bodily death indicates that only two things ultimately matter: acquiring love and acquiring knowledge.
“And the research says there's only two things that really become important, to acquire love and knowledge. Ultimately, that's the only two things that really matter.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:33:38.3-00:33:47.2 opinion second hand
200
Robert Bigelow holds that a person does not become an angel immediately upon death, and that their personality, good and bad, persists.
“But even if you're on the other side, it doesn't mean that upon death you are immediately an angel. the good, bad, and the ugly is still, your personality is still there.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:33:49.6-00:33:59.6 opinion first hand
201
Robert Bigelow defines the soul as a person's character as a spirit.
“as a spirit, my definition of your character as a spirit is your soul. And so that defines, your character defines what kind of spirit you are.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:34:03.5-00:34:12.7 opinion first hand
202
A woman Robert Bigelow knew in high school, named Marilyn, gave him a book on reincarnation, which he dismissed at the time and only read years later, coming to consider it amazing.
“A lady I used to know in high school at one time gave me a book on reincarnation. I said, oh my God, don't give me this. I don't have time for this stuff. And then years later I started reading it... oh my gosh, Marilyn was right. This book is amazing.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:34:22.9-00:34:40.4 testimony first hand
203
Robert Bigelow holds that incarnations eventually become irrelevant because there is nothing further to learn.
“But at some point, incarnations are irrelevant. You don't learn anything more. There's nothing to learn.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:34:46.2-00:34:52.6 opinion first hand
204
Robert Bigelow believes the accumulated consciousness of the dead forms a super collective creator consciousness that is the source of unifying control in the universe.
“I think what you have is a super collective consciousness. A super, super collective consciousness that's unbelievably powerful is a creator consciousness. So at the very least, is the source of unifying control.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:35:13.9-00:35:34.8 opinion first hand
205
Robert Bigelow believes the super collective consciousness represents dark energy and dark matter and maintains control of the remaining approximately 4 per cent of the universe's energy.
“I think it represents dark energy and dark matter. And I think it maintains control of the other 4% of the energy.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:35:37.0-00:35:43.9 opinion first hand
206
Robert Bigelow and his team have not only studied consciousness but have had direct experiences of it that he describes as needing to pinch yourself to be sure they really happened.
“and not just study that we have we have experiences... we have experiences that you have to pinch yourself to try to be sure to that those all those different things really happen”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:36:05.7-00:36:17.9 testimony first hand
207
James Lacatski instructed Robert Bigelow's team not to ignore anything that fell outside the UFO genre, and to pursue and run experiments on any other phenomena that mystified them.
“he gave us instructions not to ignore anything that was not just you know UFO uh kind of the genre of of UFOlogy that if we had other kinds of mystifications, things that mystified us, we were to absolutely go down that path and try to do experiments.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:36:31.6-00:36:52.5 testimony first hand
208
Robert Bigelow has run consciousness experiments that hardly anybody knows about, involving one of his security personnel and the Skinwalker Ranch manager, conducted for his own information and knowledge.
“And I've done different kinds of experiments hardly anybody knows about. And one of our security personnel and the ranch manager were involved in those experiments that I did. And those were for my own edificate, my own information and knowledge”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:36:53.6-00:37:17.9 testimony first hand
209
Robert Bigelow's consciousness experiments established that a person can have an effect on things at a distance.
“You know, can you have an effect on things at a distance? And the answer is absolutely, you can.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:37:24.9-00:37:33.0 testimony first hand
210
Robert Bigelow spoke to the president to gauge how much he knows about UFOs and whether he is aware that people in the executive branch are pushing back against his transparency proposals.
“the fact that you talked to the president basic level you wanted to see how much he knows and especially i think you wanted to know is he aware that people who work for him in the executive branch are pushing back against his proposals for transparency”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:37:48.3-00:38:04.5 observation first hand
211
Robert Bigelow has direct personal experience of executive-branch resistance to UFO transparency through the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP).
“and you have direct personal experience with how that works because of the AAWSAP program”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:38:05.2-00:38:09.8 observation first hand
212
Some critics argue that the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) was not real but a sweetheart arrangement in which Robert Bigelow received federal money arranged by Harry Reid, and that the non-release of its reports proves it.
“i know there are those out there who say, AAWSAP wasn't real. It was some kind of a sweetheart thing where you got federal money. Harry Reid did it all for you. And the fact that the documents, the reports that you produced have not been made public, that shows that it's not real.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:38:18.2-00:38:31.9 observation
213
The Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) began with an approach to Robert Bigelow from the Defense Intelligence Agency.
“This was an offer that walked in the door. It was a phone call from the DIA to you, right?”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:38:36.2-00:38:40.9 observation first hand
214
Robert Bigelow was unsure the approach from James Lacatski was genuine and had to authenticate him; Lacatski knew this and supplied the means for Bigelow to verify his identity.
“Yeah, I wasn't sure it was real. You know, I had to authenticate him and he knew that. And so he gave me the means to be able to information, be able to authenticate who the hell is this Jim Lacatski guy”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:38:41.8-00:38:52.5 testimony first hand
215
James Lacatski's initial approach to Robert Bigelow came in the form of a letter rather than a phone call.
“George Knapp: Is it a phone call or a letter? Robert Bigelow: I think it was a letter.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:38:54.8-00:38:56.8 testimony first hand
216
In his introductory letter to Robert Bigelow, James Lacatski said he wanted to see Skinwalker Ranch and was already aware of it.
“he introduced himself and he says, uh, I, I think, uh, he wanted to see the Skinwalker ranch and he was, uh, he was aware of it.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:38:58.8-00:39:06.5 testimony first hand
217
James Lacatski's letter mentioned something about securing funding, which prompted Robert Bigelow to contact Harry Reid.
“I think he mentioned something about, um, We need to secure, I'm not sure if he said something about secure funding, but there was something there that caused me to contact Reid, Harry Reid”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:39:13.5-00:39:26.3 testimony first hand
218
Robert Bigelow regarded the Defense Intelligence Agency approach as important because it was the first time a genuine government agency had engaged on the UFO subject.
“This is something I think that's super important because it's the first time that we actually have a government agency”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:39:32.3-00:39:37.7 opinion first hand
219
Robert Bigelow considers Project Blue Book, the other earlier government UFO programmes, and the Condon Report to have been scams.
“And not something like all the other programs we mentioned earlier, Blue Book and all the others that were kind of scams. And the Condon Report, they were scams.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:39:39.7-00:39:51.4 opinion first hand
220
Robert Bigelow judged James Lacatski to be legitimate.
“And so this guy, Lacatski, is legitimate.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:39:52.9-00:39:56.0 opinion first hand
221
To arrange funding for the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP), Harry Reid contacted Ted Stevens and Daniel Inouye.
“He said, I know who and how we can do this. And he contacted Ted Stevens and Daniel Inouye.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:40:01.0-00:40:08.6 testimony second hand
222
Ted Stevens had had his own UFO sighting, an undeniably anomalous experience, and so was not difficult to convince of the subject's importance.
“And Ted Stevens had already had his own sighting. So he wasn't difficult to convince, yeah, there's a lot to this. So he had a personal sighting experience, if you will, just something that was undeniably anomalous.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:40:10.0-00:40:23.9 testimony first hand
223
Harry Reid secured the funding for the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP), allowing the programme to go forward.
“And so Harry got the money, and so we went forward.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:40:25.1-00:40:30.9 testimony first hand
224
Robert Bigelow retains copies of the 38 papers produced by Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies (BAASS).
“And we have BAASS, our organization, uh we have 38 papers we have copies of everything”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:40:31.6-00:40:42.6 testimony first hand
225
Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies (BAASS) produced approximately 100 papers in total, beyond the 38 Data Element Reference Documents (DERDs), and the Defense Intelligence Agency holds copies of them somewhere.
“we have everything we have uh we have all the other papers going up to about approximately a hundred so DIA has has those someplace”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:40:44.2-00:40:52.2 testimony first hand
226
Robert Bigelow does not know where the Defense Intelligence Agency's copies of the Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies (BAASS) papers are held.
“They could be buried in a frigging trailer or the back of a car somewhere in the trunk and it's put into a cellar. I don't know where it is, but we have ours.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:40:57.5-00:41:07.0 testimony first hand
227
Robert Bigelow is unwilling to release the Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies (BAASS) papers beyond the 38 Data Element Reference Documents without official government approval.
“I don't think it's our business to... go around the government and divulge ours without sanction of proof, without approval... I don't mind the 38 papers. I think beyond that, I'm uncomfortable by not having some kind of official ass covering approval”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:41:09.2-00:41:34.6 opinion first hand
228
Robert Bigelow considers that release of the Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies (BAASS) papers would destroy the privacy of the named individuals in them.
“People's names and everything are in there. And in today's world, that's terrible if it got out. Yeah, they're... they would have no privacy.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:41:58.0-00:42:04.6 opinion first hand
229
Robert Bigelow gave Harry Reid personal briefings on the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) regularly, travelling to Searchlight, Nevada, where Reid lived and kept security guards.
“i gave uh Senator Reid personal briefings all the time i had to go to searchlight where where he lived and uh He had his security guards there, of course. And so I would give him briefings.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:42:56.3-00:43:08.5 testimony first hand
230
The Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) was initiated in September 2008.
“By the end of May 2009, the program initiated in September of 2008”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:43:53.6-00:43:58.1 administrative second hand
231
By the end of May 2009, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid was a worried man about the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP).
“By the end of May 2009, the program initiated in September of 2008, Senator Majority Leader Harry Reid was a worried man.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:43:53.6-00:44:02.4 observation second hand
232
A few days before the end of May 2009, Harry Reid received a thorough briefing from Robert Bigelow on the progress of the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) and Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies (BAASS), and was astonished by the breadth and scope of the organisation's investigative capability.
“A few days previously, he had received a thorough briefing on the progress of the new AAWSAP-BAASS effort from Robert Bigelow and the breadth and scope of the investigative horsepower of the fledgling organization had astonished the senior politician.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:44:03.4-00:44:21.7 observation second hand
233
Harry Reid was concerned that Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies (BAASS) would acquire too high a profile within the Department of Defense and that the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) contract would be exposed and left unprotected from potential opponents at the Department of Defense.
“Reid was concerned that BAASS would get too high a profile from DOD in the near future... And that the OSSAP contract would be exposed and essentially unprotected from both potential opponents at DOD.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:44:26.2-00:44:47.6 observation second hand
234
James Lacatski was not always in step with the wider Department of Defense establishment.
“So Jim wasn't always in sync with the whole crowd at the Department of Defense by any means.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:44:52.8-00:45:01.0 observation first hand
235
Over the years Harry Reid had gathered indications that both Russia and China were involved in and heavily invested in UAP-based advanced technology research programmes.
“Over the years, Reid had caught various straws in the wind that both Russia and China were involved with and heavily invested in UAP-based advanced technology research programs.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:45:08.0-00:45:21.3 observation second hand
236
By May 2009, Harry Reid was concerned that the United States was asleep at the wheel on UAP-based advanced technology research.
“By May of 2009, Reid was concerned that the United States was asleep at the wheel.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:45:25.9-00:45:31.1 observation second hand
237
Harry Reid believed there was a grave danger that China and Russia, not similarly constrained, would make quantum leaps forward by exploiting UAP-based hardware and gain an irreversible technological advantage over the United States.
“In Reid's mind, there was a grave danger that China and Russia, who were not similarly handcuffed, would succeed in taking quantum leaps forward from exploiting UAP-based hardware and thus gain an irreversible technological upper hand over the United States.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:45:34.7-00:45:56.0 opinion second hand
238
Robert Bigelow considers the United States to be at a disadvantage in reverse engineering because the Russian and Chinese governments operate without the constraints placed on private companies in the United States and can make people disappear.
“China and Russia don't have those handcuffs, obviously. You know, they can make people disappear if they want it really easy. So their governments are entirely different than ours. And so we are at a disadvantage.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:46:29.7-00:46:42.2 opinion first hand
239
Harry Reid came to regard the UFO subject as a national security matter, more serious than the risk of UFOs causing aircraft accidents, because the United States was falling further behind every decade.
“And that's what bothered Harry... It's not just that UFOs could cause, you know, airplane accidents... but uh more seriously was that we are getting behind further and further every decade”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:46:43.0-00:46:55.3 observation first hand
240
Robert Bigelow is aware that the effort to reverse engineer recovered craft is not easy.
“There are yes and there are things george um i am aware um the back engineering effort is is not easy”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:47:16.9-00:47:31.1 testimony first hand
241
Robert Bigelow considers that a well-coordinated effort of support, conducted in strict secrecy, would greatly help the reverse engineering of recovered craft.
“So it would be a big help if there were a good coordinated effort of support and still in devout secrecy. There has to be, but it's just not easy”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:47:42.6-00:48:00.0 opinion first hand
242
The person who came forward about the Russian laser programme was a very senior figure within that Russian programme.
“yeah very senior guy in their program Huge, huge, very, very senior.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:49:21.4-00:49:27.1 testimony first hand
243
None of the material about UFOs, Skinwalker Ranch or alien technology appeared in the proposal or the contracts Robert Bigelow signed for the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP).
“None of that stuff was written in the proposal in the contracts that you signed, right? ... Right, right.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:50:01.8-00:50:06.2 testimony first hand
244
The stated subject matter of the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) contract was conventional topics such as lift propulsion and cloaking rather than the more sensitive material.
“We had the parochial stuff. The usual stuff, you know, lift propulsion, cloaking, you know, not the real interesting, tricky stuff.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:50:09.9-00:50:20.3 testimony first hand
245
Everyone involved in the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) knew its real purpose despite the wording of the contract.
“But everybody involved knew what it was about. ... Yeah.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:50:21.8-00:50:24.3 testimony first hand
246
Under the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP), Robert Bigelow's team had permission to pursue any anomalous phenomenon wherever reliable evidence led.
“And we had permission to go wherever the evidence, wherever we could have reliable evidence and anything was anomalous, we had permission to chase it.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:50:25.6-00:50:36.3 testimony first hand
247
James Lacatski sent a letter to Robert Bigelow pitching the idea of studying Skinwalker Ranch.
“and they came to you and pitched this idea so the letter comes in from lakatsky to you yeah”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:51:02.7-00:51:07.5 testimony first hand
248
The name and acronym of the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) were not chosen by Robert Bigelow's organisation.
“yeah and we didn't create the uh the uh aerospace advanced weapons application program AAWSAP That wasn't our acronym or our name”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:51:11.0-00:51:22.7 testimony first hand
249
The Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) had to be a Department of Defense programme because that was where the funding could be sequestered; placed elsewhere the money would have been lost.
“And because it was a DO, Department of War, DOW? Program. And because of that, that's where the money could be sequestered. If it had gone someplace else, it would have been lost. So it had to go to DOW.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:51:26.0-00:51:45.6 testimony first hand
250
The Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP) was insignificant compared with the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP).
“AATIP was nothing by comparison.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:51:52.4-00:51:54.4 opinion first hand
251
UFOs were the primary focus of the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP), with everything else treated as fair game because it was connected.
“But we had permission. Everything else was fair game. Because it was connected, too. And Lacatski knew that. It was connected.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:52:11.7-00:52:21.2 testimony first hand
252
A circular opening the size of a large pipe appeared at Skinwalker Ranch from which something crawled out that was invisible to the naked eye but visible through night vision goggles.
“So if you have something, a circle open up the size of a large pipe and something crawls out of that, but your naked eye can't see it, but somebody on night vision goggles can see it, that's certainly anomalous”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:52:22.0-00:52:36.4 testimony first hand
253
UFOs are abundant in the Uinta Basin, not only at Skinwalker Ranch but also at neighbouring ranches contiguous to it.
“that's certainly anomalous in an area where UFOs are abundant in the Holy Uinta Basin. know not just that ranch but other sister ranches uh contiguous to the ranch and others”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:52:35.7-00:52:47.1 testimony first hand
254
Robert Bigelow's investigators had extensive cooperation from the Uintah County Sheriff's Department and the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) in the Uinta Basin.
“we had tremendous cooperation with the sheriff's department and the BIA um the Bureau of Indian Affairs was those guys were great the sheriff's department were great”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:52:49.6-00:52:59.8 testimony first hand
255
Officers of the Uintah County Sheriff's Department and the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) reported a large number of anomalous encounters, including chasing objects in their vehicles.
“and they had they had more encounters and stuff than you can shake a stick ... What they chased with their cars and the experiences they had, yeah, their information was great.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:53:00.4-00:53:14.8 hearsay second hand
256
Robert Bigelow's team interviewed a large number of people across the Uinta Basin area, gathering information beyond Skinwalker Ranch itself.
“So we interviewed a lot of people in the whole area, and we were getting information not just on the ranch.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:53:19.2-00:53:25.8 testimony first hand
257
James Lacatski travelled to Las Vegas and then flew with Robert Bigelow on Bigelow's aircraft to north-eastern Utah for a tour of Skinwalker Ranch.
“Dr. Lakatsky comes to Las Vegas, you jump on your plane, you fly to Northeastern Utah, and you took him on a little tour.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:53:31.2-00:53:38.1 testimony first hand
258
James Lacatski identified Skinwalker Ranch from the air during the approach to Vernal airport, recognising its mesa and topography from aerial photographs he had studied.
“he's looking out the window and we're coming close you know to to vernal where the airport is ... he said, oh, there's the ranch so he had had aerial photographs to where he knew it visually Yeah, because he spotted the, you know, the mesa and the topography”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:54:00.7-00:54:16.0 observation first hand
259
The drive from Vernal airport to Skinwalker Ranch takes about 30 minutes by car.
“we still have to get in a car and drive about you know 30 minutes to the ranch”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:54:06.2-00:54:09.8 measurement first hand
260
Jean Dietz and a man named Richard were the managers living in the newer homestead building at Skinwalker Ranch.
“And where Jean Dietz and Richard live, they're the managers.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:54:56.3-00:55:01.7 administrative first hand
261
A great deal of anomalous activity occurred continually in the Skinwalker Ranch homestead house occupied by Jean Dietz.
“And she was a spunky gal. And a lot of stuff happened all the time in her house.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:55:05.1-00:55:12.0 testimony first hand
262
Terry Sherman previously lived in that same Skinwalker Ranch homestead with his wife and two children.
“Because that's where Sherman lived. Terry Sherman lived, and his wife lived there too. And there are two kids.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:55:12.4-00:55:17.0 administrative first hand
263
The doors of the Skinwalker Ranch homestead occupied by the Sherman family had unusual locks fitted.
“And why there were peculiar locks on the doors and things, right?”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:55:18.8-00:55:21.7 observation first hand
264
During James Lacatski's 2008 visit to Skinwalker Ranch, four people were seated around a rectangular table in the dining area of the living room, not in the kitchen, and only James Lacatski was facing towards the kitchen.
“We were in the dining area of the living room around a rectangular table. And there were four of us and Jim was the only one looking into the kitchen.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:55:36.4-00:55:45.4 observation first hand
265
The group had been at Skinwalker Ranch about 45 minutes when the meeting during which James Lacatski saw the tubular object began.
“We had been on the ranch about 45 minutes altogether when we had started that meeting.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:55:53.9-00:56:00.1 observation first hand
266
James Lacatski was the only person present who saw the object in the kitchen at Skinwalker Ranch.
“He was the only one that saw it.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:56:11.0-00:56:12.1 observation first hand
267
The object James Lacatski saw at Skinwalker Ranch was floating above the floor at about the height of a sink countertop.
“And what he saw floating above the floor, about sink countertop high,”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:56:13.0-00:56:18.6 hearsay second hand
268
According to what James Lacatski described to Robert Bigelow, the object he saw at Skinwalker Ranch was metal-looking and tubular, resembling the imagery of the album Tubular Bells.
“was a metal-looking object that was tubular. like in the music album, Tubular Bells.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:56:20.2-00:56:27.2 hearsay second hand
269
James Lacatski said nothing about the sighting while at Skinwalker Ranch and only raised it on the return flight, asking Robert Bigelow whether he had seen anything.
“but on the flight back, and he said, did you, on the flight, he said, did you see anything? I said, no.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:56:38.9-00:56:45.0 testimony first hand
270
Robert Bigelow did not see anything during the meeting in the Skinwalker Ranch house at which James Lacatski saw the tubular object.
“no where when? He said when when we were in the house when we were when we were having our meeting? I said no”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:56:53.0-00:56:59.4 observation first hand
271
Over a period of time James Lacatski gradually disclosed to Robert Bigelow everything he had seen at Skinwalker Ranch, describing it in as much detail as he could.
“so over a period of time he loosened up more and more and more and finally divulged everything about what he saw and described it in detail as much as he could.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:57:01.0-00:57:13.4 testimony first hand
272
The tubular object James Lacatski saw at Skinwalker Ranch remained present for a significant period, not merely two or three seconds.
“And it was there for a significant, it wasn't like two or three seconds, it was there for a significant period of time.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:57:14.4-00:57:20.3 hearsay second hand
273
Physical evidence of anomalous activity at Skinwalker Ranch can persist for weeks or months if it is left undisturbed.
“or you see evidence that can linger for a very long time if you don't disturb it, if you don't change what has been changed, that could be there for weeks or months.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:57:29.0-00:57:40.7 opinion first hand
274
Robert Bigelow considers the display James Lacatski witnessed at Skinwalker Ranch to have been customised for him.
“So it really sunk into him and it was customized.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:57:55.1-00:57:57.6 opinion first hand
275
James Lacatski was the first government employee to become an experiencer at Skinwalker Ranch, ahead of the other government personnel who later visited.
“he was an experiencer right off the bat as a government employee in addition to all the other people, all the other government people that showed up. And so Jim was the first one.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:58:02.6-00:58:16.2 testimony first hand
276
After his Skinwalker Ranch visit James Lacatski returned to Washington DC, drafted the outline of a programme, described it to Robert Bigelow, who then contacted Harry Reid, leading to the creation of the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP).
“And then he goes back to D.C., he designs the outline of a program, he tells it to you, you call Reid, and then AAWSAP is born.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:58:24.8-00:58:32.4 testimony first hand
277
Robert Bigelow believes elements within the United States government would have killed the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) for a variety of different reasons.
“Yeah. For a variety of different reasons, they would kill it.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:59:03.4-00:59:05.8 opinion first hand
278
The Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) lasted 27 months, having been contracted as a two-year programme.
“It lasted for 27 months. It was a two-year program.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:59:10.8-00:59:13.1 testimony first hand
279
The Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) was killed in December 2010.
“And it was killed, I think, in December of 2010.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:59:14.3-00:59:18.1 testimony first hand
280
Robert Bigelow felt honoured to do work for the United States government through the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP), regarding it as important and helpful.
“We were excited about it. We were honored to be able to do something for the government and that we thought was important and helpful.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 00:59:48.0-00:59:56.4 opinion first hand
281
The agreement Robert Bigelow signed with the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) contained provisions for modifying the Bigelow Aerospace plant in Las Vegas in anticipation of receiving unspecified materials.
“As part of the agreement that you signed with DIA, there were provisions that you would modify Bigelow Aerospace Plan in anticipation of receiving some materials. It doesn't say what those materials are”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:00:03.2-01:00:17.2 testimony first hand
282
Robert Bigelow pursued his own approach to gaining unacknowledged special access program (USAP) status, without mentioning it to James Lacatski or anyone else.
“So I didn't even mention it to Lacatski or to anybody, but I had my own approach to becoming SAP-ed, to being an unacknowledged special access program.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:00:49.5-01:01:02.3 testimony first hand
283
Entry into an unacknowledged special access program (USAP) happens only where the applicant has a need to know serious enough that those already inside are obliged to give information limited to that applicant's situation.
“That's at a very high level, and the only way that that happens is if you have a need to know that is so serious that it behooves people in the know to embrace you, to give you information only as it applies to your situation.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:01:05.1-01:01:24.4 testimony first hand
284
Robert Bigelow's approach to gaining a need to know was to offer aerospace companies holding hardware and materials something none of them possessed, which he could create, and which required him to know enough about what he had to accommodate.
“My approach, my personal approach was I could offer something to aerospace companies that had hardware and different materials, different things, and there was something that they didn't have, none of them had, that I could create that gave me a reason to have a need to know.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:01:51.3-01:02:15.2 testimony first hand
285
Robert Bigelow told George Knapp at the time that he spent a large sum of his own money making the modifications to the Bigelow Aerospace plant required by the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) contract.
“And what you had told me back in those days was you spent a lot of your own money to make that happen. It did happen, right? You did prepare for some eventualities.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:03:00.5-01:03:08.6 hearsay second hand
286
Robert Bigelow declined to discuss the modifications made to the Bigelow Aerospace plant under the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) contract.
“don't want to talk about it”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:03:12.3-01:03:13.3 testimony first hand
287
The Bigelow Aerospace facility includes a 12-storey bay approximately 37 metres high.
“we have a 12-story bay 120 feet”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:03:33.6-01:03:37.7 measurement first hand
288
The Bigelow Aerospace facility has a crane hook height of approximately 32 metres.
“we have 106 foot hook height”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:03:37.9-01:03:39.9 measurement first hand
289
Bigelow Aerospace built a mock-up of a future expandable spacecraft of over 2,000 cubic metres.
“we have a mock-up of a future expandable spacecraft that is over 2,000 cubic meters.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:03:44.4-01:03:50.6 measurement first hand
290
The International Space Station has only 935 cubic metres of internal volume in total, including the American, Russian, European and Japanese sections.
“The International Space Station has only 935 cubic meters, and that includes the American side, the Russian side, the European module, the Japanese module.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:03:51.5-01:04:00.8 measurement first hand
291
The American side of the International Space Station accounts for only about 450 cubic metres of the station's 935 cubic metres.
“And we only have, the Americans only have about 450 cubic meters of that 935.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:04:03.1-01:04:07.9 measurement first hand
292
The first three United States modules of the International Space Station were built by Russia because the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) had no experience with habitable systems while Russia did.
“our first three modules were created by russia because we didn't have any experience i'm talking to speak on behalf of NASA we didn't have an experience with habitable systems they did with the Mir”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:04:14.5-01:04:24.8 testimony first hand
293
Russia operated the Mir and Almaz space stations, having built crewed spacecraft before the United States did.
“they had with the Mir you know they they had Almaz they had spacecraft before we did”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:04:23.3-01:04:29.7 testimony first hand
294
In the late 1950s and early 1960s the Soviet Union had stronger propulsion systems than the United States and could throw more mass, which was a major concern from a nuclear weapon delivery perspective.
“they had propulsion systems stronger than we had initially before we went to the moon in the in the late 50s early 60s they could throw more mass than we could so that was a from a nuclear bomb deliveries perspective, that was of a huge concern.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:04:31.4-01:04:47.9 testimony first hand
295
The United States was in a race with the Soviet Union for delivery power equalling or surpassing theirs, beyond just reaching the Moon.
“So we were in a race, more than just going to the moon, we were in a race to have delivery power that equal or surpassed theirs.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:04:49.6-01:04:56.0 opinion first hand
296
The Bigelow B330 expandable spacecraft has an internal volume of 330 cubic metres, about 75 per cent of the volume the Americans hold on the International Space Station.
“our small uh craft expandable system was 330 cubic meters you know 75 of the entire space that the americans already have on the ISS”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:05:14.1-01:05:25.1 measurement first hand
297
An average metallic module on the International Space Station has an internal volume of about 105 to 110 cubic metres, making the Bigelow B330 expandable spacecraft three times that size.
“and three times the size of an average module average metallic system on the ISS is about 105 110 cubic meters our B330 is 330.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:05:26.3-01:05:32.3 measurement first hand
298
Bigelow Aerospace could build a 600 cubic metre expandable system with substantial safety margins if it chose to.
“but we could do one if we wanted to do one of 600 we could do a 600 cubic meter and have tremendous margins of safety”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:05:36.2-01:05:43.1 testimony first hand
299
The International Space Station cost 100 billion United States dollars to build, in year 2000 dollar values.
“we spent 100 billion dollars to build the ISS as it currently exists 100 billion back in in dollars in 2000 dollar values you know 26 years ago”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:06:32.8-01:06:42.6 measurement first hand
300
Bigelow Aerospace could build a space system larger than the International Space Station for one twentieth of its cost.
“We can have a system that would be 1/20th of that cost and be larger.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:06:49.5-01:06:56.9 opinion first hand
301
Although Bigelow Aerospace has been inactive for many years, the systems Robert Bigelow developed remain more advanced than anything developed since.
“even though Bigelow Aerospace has been inactive for many years, those systems you develop are still more advanced than what has been developed in your absence.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:07:05.8-01:07:14.0 opinion first hand
302
Robert Bigelow holds 29 patents in his own name and describes himself as a homegrown engineer.
“Yeah, I am kind of a homegrown engineer guy, and I have 29 patents to my name”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:07:14.2-01:07:19.7 testimony first hand
303
Robert Bigelow bought the land for Bigelow Aerospace in 2000 and built the first building in 2001, with the final building completed in 2012.
“I built a company starting in, bought the land in 2000, and built our first building in 2001, then we added on, added on, added on. Built the last one in 2012.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:07:32.4-01:07:43.9 testimony first hand
304
The Bigelow Aerospace facility comprises approximately 35,000 square metres of floor space.
“We have 375,000 square feet of space, but we have a huge amount of cubic volume.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:07:44.4-01:07:50.8 measurement first hand
305
Bigelow Aerospace launched its first spacecraft in 2006 and its second in 2007.
“And we launched our first spacecraft in 2006, our second one in 2007”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:07:51.9-01:07:58.3 testimony first hand
306
The Bigelow Expandable Activity Module (BEAM) was attached to the International Space Station in 2016 and remains attached.
“and then BEAM, which is attached right now, this minute, to the ISS in 2016.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:07:59.4-01:08:02.9 testimony first hand
307
Attaching the Bigelow Expandable Activity Module (BEAM) to the International Space Station gave Bigelow Aerospace a Technology Readiness Level of nine, the highest attainable.
“and so that gave us a trl technical technical readiness level of nine which is the highest you can get”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:08:04.6-01:08:10.5 testimony first hand
308
A photograph exists showing six astronauts inside the Bigelow Expandable Activity Module (BEAM).
“because we have people we have a photograph of six astronauts inside the BEAM it's small yeah”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:08:11.1-01:08:16.5 testimony first hand
309
Expandable space habitat systems are safer, more durable and more resistant to penetration than metallic systems.
“and they're more they're safer and more durable and bulletproof than a metallic systems are”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:08:27.2-01:08:32.7 opinion first hand
310
Background galactic radiation becomes a serious problem for crews once outside the Earth's magnetosphere.
“the radiation contamination component which is huge background galactic radiation is a serious problem huge once you get out of our magnetosphere”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:08:35.0-01:08:42.6 testimony first hand
311
Mars has only one per cent of Earth's atmosphere and no magnetosphere, so a person walking on its surface faces a cancer risk within a short time.
“and ditto for Mars. Mars only has one percent of the atmosphere of earth there's no magnetosphere on Mars so you're walking around there you you you're getting cancer potential you know in a short time”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:08:43.8-01:08:54.2 measurement first hand
312
Bigelow Aerospace is a destination company, providing places to go in space rather than transport to them.
“Bigelow Aerospace is a destination company.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:09:02.2-01:09:03.6 testimony first hand
313
Robert Bigelow declined to confirm George Knapp's suggestion that he had something to offer in return for something stashed away, calling it speculation.
“You had something to offer in return. ... Well, that's just speculation. I don't know. Do you want to leave it at that?”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:09:38.1-01:09:47.6 testimony first hand
314
Robert Bigelow believes the aerospace companies that held the secret should be given a clean bill of health in return for the work they did on behalf of the American public.
“and you think that they should be given a clean bill of health uh in return for the work that they've done on the behalf of the american public right”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:10:10.0-01:10:17.7 opinion second hand
315
Robert Bigelow considers that people who report unidentified aerial phenomena encounters have not asked for anything, that they should not be harmed, and that those receiving their reports should be glad of the cooperation and information they bring.
“It's that they haven't asked for anything. You should cause no harm. You should free them up. And you should be lucky to have the cooperation and all of the information that they bring to the table.”
The Evolution of AAWSAP | Bigelow Podcast, Ep. 2 2026-08-11 01:10:27.9-01:10:47.8 opinion first hand
316
Robert Bigelow is a billionaire and Trump donor whose interest in UAP spans several decades.
“billionaire and Trump donor Robert Bigelow, whose interest in UAPs spans several decades”
Pressure Mounts on President Trump as UAP Disclosure Advocates Intensify Their Push 2026-08-19 char:3380-3461 administrative
317
In February 2026, Robert Bigelow advised Donald Trump on how he might address the nation regarding the UAP issue.
“Two weeks ago, Bigelow said that in February he advised President Trump on how he might address the nation regarding the issue.”
Pressure Mounts on President Trump as UAP Disclosure Advocates Intensify Their Push 2026-08-19 char:3470-3591 testimony first hand
318
Robert Bigelow emphasised that the disclosure process, starting with confirmation, is a big deal, and that it is important for the President of the United States to say that non-human intelligence is real and here, in order to eliminate the other nonsense that has been going on for 80 years.
““I was emphasizing that the disclosure process, starting with confirmation, is a big deal. That, you know, it really is important for somebody like the President of the United States to say, ‘yeah, they’re real, they’re here. And eliminate all the other nonsense, all the noise that’s been going on for 80 years,’””
Pressure Mounts on President Trump as UAP Disclosure Advocates Intensify Their Push 2026-08-19 char:3603-3908 opinion first hand
319
Robert Bigelow suggested Donald Trump say that a non-human, intelligent presence has been on Earth for a very long time, using spacecraft with performances completely beyond human capabilities and human physics.
““This, this is what I want you to say, Mr President: ‘A non-human, intelligent presence has been on Earth for a very long time, using spacecraft and with performances completely beyond our capabilities and our human physics.’ And that’s it, to say nothing else. That’s it, that’s all. Because what this is, is disclosure. And it’s actually confirmation.””
Pressure Mounts on President Trump as UAP Disclosure Advocates Intensify Their Push 2026-08-19 char:3988-4327 opinion first hand
320
In the latest episode of his podcast with George Knapp, Robert Bigelow took a more cautious stance on UAP disclosure than David Grusch, emphasising the need to protect secrecy.
“in the latest episode he appeared to take a more cautious stance on disclosure than Grusch, emphasising the need to protect secrecy”
Pressure Mounts on President Trump as UAP Disclosure Advocates Intensify Their Push 2026-08-19 char:4450-4574 opinion
321
Robert Bigelow considers it necessary for companies allegedly involved in reverse-engineering non-human technology to maintain their secrecy at all costs, because the United States is in competition with China and Russia on the same technology, and China and Russia do not have the same concerns about secrecy.
““The companies need more money. They need more scientists involved, but they have to maintain their secrecy at all costs because we are in competition with China and Russia on the exact same thing [non-human technology], and they don't have the concerns about secrecy that we do.””
Pressure Mounts on President Trump as UAP Disclosure Advocates Intensify Their Push 2026-08-19 char:4758-5033 opinion first hand
322
Robert Bigelow believes UAP disclosure needs to be a truthful, step-by-step, partial process, engaging the gatekeepers as one of the country's most important assets, in a way that creates a new era of partnership that has not existed in 80 years.
““It needs to be a process, a step-by-step, partial process delivery. It needs to be truthful, and we need to engage, find ways to engage one of the most important assets that this country has - it’s the gatekeepers- and do it in a way that is really a great new era of partnership that has never existed for 80 years.””
Pressure Mounts on President Trump as UAP Disclosure Advocates Intensify Their Push 2026-08-19 char:5108-5418 opinion first hand

Robert Bigelow

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