Brief

Thomas Wilson

The claims the writer was given for Thomas Wilson, in the order they were given.

Claims 253

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1
Thomas Wilson described the calls he received as sarcastic, containing stupid jokes and comments of surprise and derision at the idea he would be talking to UFO groups.
“TW: Sarcastic, stupid jokes, stupid comments, comments of surprise and derision (that I would be talking to UFO nuts/nutty UFO groups, etc.)”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:10004-10135 testimony first hand
2
The calls Thomas Wilson received about the Boston Globe articles came from co-workers who were flag officers in the Pentagon, lower staff, civilian Senior Executive Service (SES) people, and people in the intelligence community he worked with, who did not like the articles.
“TW: Co-workers (flag officers) in Pentagon, lower staff, civilian SES people, people in intell community I work with. Got calls about articles and didn't like it.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:10156-10311 testimony first hand
3
Thomas Wilson said he was taking a risk talking to Eric W. Davis, trusting Oke Shannon's word.
“TW: I'm taking risk talking to you - But trusts Oke's word and it is good with me.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:10320-10395 testimony first hand
4
Thomas Wilson said he and Oke Shannon should have met Eric W. Davis together face-to-face but Shannon's health problems prevented that.
“We should have met Oke together face-to-face but present health problems prevent that - too bad!”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:10401-10493 testimony first hand
5
Rich and Doug vouched for Eric W. Davis, saying his word is good with them, and Thomas Wilson said the Association of Former Intelligence Officers (AFIO) connection is important for trust.
“TW: Rich & Doug vouch for you - say your word is good with them. AFIO connection important for trust - you (EWD) know how to be team player”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:10532-10661 testimony first hand
6
The subject discussed between Oke Shannon and Will Miller related to a Boston Globe story by Leslie Kean, the UFO topic, crashed and retrieved UFO craft and bodies, and a Majestic 12 (MJ-12) -like UFO organisation or cabal.
“Re: Boston Globe Story - L. Kean. Yep, UFO topic - crashed/retrieved UFO craft/bodies, etc. MJ-12 like UFO organization (or cabal).”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:1063-1183 hearsay second hand
7
Eric W. Davis's background check came back clear, with no derogatory items found, a good Korean record, and Air Force trust.
“- Background check clear - no derogatory items found - Korean record good and AF trusts you”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:10670-10756 testimony first hand
8
Thomas Wilson said that if Eric W. Davis violated his trust, he would deny meeting him and deny everything said, and would not meet with any more people without clearances to talk about this topic, because it is a very tightly held and absurdly closely held subject matter unlike anything he has seen in the black programmes community.
“If you blow my trust I'll deny meeting you, deny everything said, won't meet with any more people (without clearances) to talk about this topic - too risky because of security violation just by mentioning it - very tightly held info - absurdly closely held subject matter - never seen anything like this program in black programs community”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:10812-11142 testimony first hand
9
After parting with Will Miller, about a week later, Thomas Wilson made calls, knocked on a few doors, and talked to people, continuing on and off for about 45 days.
“TW: After parting with Miller (week later, he thinks) - I made calls, knocked on a few doors, talked to people - went on for 45 days (thereabouts) on and off”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:11209-11359 testimony first hand
10
General M. Ward suggested to Thomas Wilson that he go through the records group files in the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics (OUSDAT).
“Suggestion came from Ward (Gen. M. Ward) to go through the records groups files (like an index system) in OUSDAT (Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition and Technology)”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:11389-11564 testimony first hand
11
Thomas Wilson ran into William Perry in May 1997 and discussed the matter quietly, and Perry suggested the same approach as General M. Ward.
“Ran into Bill Perry in May '97 - talked about this quietly - he suggested the same thing”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:11578-11661 testimony first hand
12
Thomas Wilson was told of a special projects record group that did not belong to the usual Special Access Programs (SAP), being a special subset of unacknowledged, carve-out, and waived programmes not belonging to the usual SAP divisions organised in 1994 by William Perry, set apart from and buried or covered by conventional SAPs.
“They told me of a special projects record group not belonging to usual SAP - a special subset of the unacknowledged/carve-outs/waived programs - not belonging to usual SAP divisions as organized in '94 by Perry himself - set apart from rest but buried/covered by conventional SAPs”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:11669-11945 testimony first hand
13
Paul Kaminski was the Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics (USDAT), and Thomas Wilson talked to both Kaminski and Brigadier General Michael Kostelnik.
“TW: Uh, was Paul Kaminski - talked to both Paul and Mike Kostelnik (a Brig. General)”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:11976-12048 testimony first hand
14
Michael Kostelnik was director of special programmes in the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics (OUSDAT), as reorganised by William Perry in 1994.
“In Paul's office (OUSDAT) - dir. of special programs in OUSDAT (Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology, and Logistics) as organized (re-organized) by Perry in '94”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:12087-12277 administrative first hand
15
Steven Greer, Will Miller and Edgar D. Mitchell gave a talk in a Pentagon conference room, with Admiral Mike Crawford and General Patrick Hughes present, in April 1997.
“TW: Confirmed Greer/Miller/Mitchell gave talk in Pentagon Conference room. Adm. Mike Crawford, Gen. Pat Hughes (Hughes his boss) were present (others too.) Date April '97.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:1217-1381 testimony first hand
16
Michael Kostelnik was also director of the Special Access Programs Coordination Office (SAPCO).
“Mike is also director of SAPCO (Special Access Programs Coordination Office)”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:12282-12351 administrative first hand
17
Michael Kostelnik was a member and executive secretary of the Special Access Programs Oversight Committee (SAPOC) in his capacity as Special Access Programs Coordination Office (SAPCO) director.
“Mike is member and executive secretary to SAPOC (Special Access Programs Oversight Committee) in capacity as SAPCO director”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:12361-12476 administrative first hand
18
Michael Kostelnik was a member of the Senior Review Group.
“Mike is a member of the Senior Review Group”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:12487-12525 administrative first hand
19
At the time of his 1997 investigation, Thomas Wilson was Deputy Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) and Assistant Joint Chief of Staff for Intelligence (J-2), and his boss was Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency General Patrick Hughes.
“(TW was Deputy Director DIA/Assistant Joint Chief of Staff J-2 at time; boss was Director DIA Gen. Patrick Hughes)”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:12533-12639 administrative
20
Thomas Wilson found the unusual record group and read the index abstracts.
“TW: So found the unusual record group - read the index abstracts.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:12652-12703 testimony first hand
21
Thomas Wilson found no budget information in the special record group, as that information is kept in separate records for audit purposes, with a security budget record copied into a folder for "the program".
“TW: No budget info - that is kept in separate records for audit purposes. - A security budget record is copied into a folder for "the program"”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:12738-12868 testimony first hand
22
Michael Kostelnik told Thomas Wilson the programme's security budget was typically two to three times the programme budget, but at times went as high as six to seven times the core budget, which Kostelnik thought was absurdly high; William Perry wanted an investigation into that but was told to drop it.
“Talked to Mike who said it was like 2-3 times the program budget, but there were times when it went as high as 6-7 times core budget, thought it was absurdly high, said Perry wanted investigation on that but was told to drop it.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:12879-13104 testimony second hand
23
Patrick Hughes was Thomas Wilson's boss.
“Adm. Mike Crawford, Gen. Pat Hughes (Hughes his boss) were present”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:1288-1347 administrative first hand
24
Michael Kostelnik declined to say who told him to drop the investigation into the programme's security budget, and instead told Thomas Wilson he could find out something from Judith Daly, Assistant Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for Advanced Development in the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics (OUSDAT).
“TW: He didn't want to answer my question on that - said I could find out something from Judy Daly (Judith Daly: Assistant Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for Advanced Development, OUSDAT).”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:13138-13316 testimony first hand
25
Judith Daly told Thomas Wilson by phone that security and other programme budget records were being revamped and relocated to their own records groups, and that security budgets were sometimes cumulative rather than annual figures, which can produce misunderstanding when compared to annual programme budget figures.
“TW: She said by phone call that security and other program budget records were being re-vamped and relocated to their own records groups. Security budgets were sometimes cumulative and not annual numbers, easy to see how misunderstanding occurs when comparing to annual program budget figures.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:13354-13635 testimony second hand
26
Judith Daly said the reported six-to-seven-times budget figure could represent two to five years of cumulative totals, and that there had been errors in the way security budgets were reported.
“6-7 times could be 2-5 years cumulative total - there have been errors in way security budgets reported.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:13644-13739 testimony second hand
27
William Perry ordered the security budget reporting issues to be reorganised and straightened out to improve audit transparency.
“TW: Perry ordered all these issues to be reorganized and straightened out to improve audit transparency.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:13754-13841 testimony first hand
28
Thomas Wilson declined to name the Special Access Program (SAP) compartment he found, calling it a core secret.
“EWD: Change subject: so what SAP compartment did you find in? TW: Core secret - won't say”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:13861-13943 testimony first hand
29
Thomas Wilson declined to give the code name of the programme, calling it a core secret.
“EWD: Code name? TW: Again won't say - core secret”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:13953-13992 testimony first hand
30
The contractor that ran the reverse-engineering programme Thomas Wilson found was an aerospace technology contractor, one of the top ones in the United States, and the best defence contractor of them, with an intelligence portfolio in its corporate business.
“TW: An aerospace technology contractor - one of the top ones in US ... EWD: Defense contractor? TW: Yes, the best one of them. EWD: Intelligence too? TW: In their corporate portfolio”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:14074-14274 testimony first hand
31
After the April 1997 Pentagon briefing group broke up, Will Miller and Thomas Wilson talked privately for two hours about UFOs, Majestic 12 (MJ-12), the 1947 Roswell UFO incident, and crashed UFOs and alien bodies.
“After group broke up, Miller/Wilson talked (privately) 2 hours on UFOs, MJ-12, Roswell, crashed UFOs/alien bodies, etc.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:1412-1527 testimony first hand
32
Thomas Wilson made several calls at the end of May 1997, first to Paul Kaminski, Michael Kostelnik and William Perry, to confirm he had the right contractor and programme manager to talk to, and they confirmed it.
“TW: I made several calls (end of May '97), first to Paul, Mike & Perry to confirm I had right contractor and program manager to talk to. EWD: They confirm? TW: Yes.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:14381-14539 testimony first hand
33
At the end of May 1997, Thomas Wilson made three calls to the programme manager, one of them a conference call with the security director and the corporate attorney, and all three showed confusion and a very testy tone about why he was calling and what he wanted.
“TW: (End of May '97) Made three calls to the program manager - one of them conference call with security director and corporate attorney. - Confusion on their part as to why I was looking for them and what I wanted from them or wanted to know about. - Very testy tone from all of them.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:14585-14860 testimony first hand
34
Thomas Wilson told the programme manager that he had read their programme record in the OUSDAT special programme records group and wanted to know about their crashed UFO programme and their role in it, and also asked if they had heard of Majestic 12 (MJ-12) or a similar organisation code relating to crashed or recovered UFO craft.
“TW: I told I read their program record in the OUSDAT special program records group and wanted to know about their crashed UFO program, what their role in that was, what they had, etc. Also asked if they heard of MJ-12 or some such organization code relating to crashed/recovered UFO craft.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:15027-15306 testimony first hand
35
Thomas Wilson said he was intrigued and knew about intelligence on US military and intelligence UFO close encounters and foreign government encounters, having seen records, and told this to Will Miller.
“TW intrigued - knew about intelligence on US mil/intell UFO close encounters - and foreign gov't encounters. Seen records. Told Miller.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:1532-1660 testimony first hand
36
The programme manager asked Thomas Wilson who he had talked to before calling them, and was unhappy with his answer, but Wilson did not tell them he had talked to William Perry and Paul Kaminski.
“TW: Yes! Asked who I talked to before I called them so I told them and they weren't happy with that answer. ... TW: Oh, no! I didn't tell them I talked to those guys!”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:15351-15545 testimony first hand
37
Thomas Wilson also called other programme managers, three of whom said they were not what he was looking for, and four of whom referred him back to the threesome he had already contacted.
“TW: 3 programs who said they weren't what/who I was looking for. 4 programs that referred me back to the present threesome.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:15730-15839 testimony first hand
38
Thomas Wilson said the four programmes referred him back to the threesome because they were part of the same programme, placed in different compartments and layers of the compartments pyramid, split up to do different parts of it, all within the same records group though their connection to each other was not obvious.
“TW: Because they were part of it - in different compartments, placed in different layers of the compartments pyramid, split up to do different things or parts of it. They're all in same records group, but their connection to each other is not obvious (typical thing but unusual in records).”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:15901-16178 testimony first hand
39
Thomas Wilson told the threesome he wanted a formal briefing and tour, exploiting his regulatory authority as Deputy Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) and Assistant Joint Chief of Staff for Intelligence (J-2), telling them that his not being briefed was an oversight they needed to correct, and he demanded it.
“TW: I told threesome I wanted formal briefing, tour, etc. - was exploiting my regulatory authority as Deputy Director DIA/Assistant Joint Chief of Staff J-2 - Told them my not being briefed was oversight they needed to correct - I demanded!”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:16210-16437 testimony first hand
40
The threesome told Thomas Wilson they needed to discuss his demand, hung up, then called back two days later saying they did not want to talk on the phone and arranged a face-to-face meeting at their facility.
“TW: They needed to discuss this (his demand) so hung up. Got called 2 days later and they said they don't want to talk on phone and arranged for face-to-face meeting at their facility.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:16452-16623 testimony first hand
41
Thomas Wilson flew out ten days later, around mid-June 1997, to meet the same three people who had been on the telephone conference, in their conference room in their secure vault.
“TW: Yes, ten days later (mid-June or so). Flew out there - Met in their conference room in their secure vault - Three of them show up ... TW: Yes, same 3”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:16656-16836 testimony first hand
42
The three people who met Thomas Wilson at the facility were a security director who was a retired National Security Agency (NSA) counterintelligence (CI) expert, a programme director, and a corporate attorney, who called themselves "the watch committee" or gatekeepers.
“- Security director (NSA-retired, a CI expert) - Program director - Corporate attorney - Called themselves "the watch committee," or gate keepers.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:16845-16981 testimony first hand
43
The Watch Committee told Thomas Wilson they were formed out of necessity to protect themselves after a near disaster in the past almost blew their cover, related to an agreement reached with a couple of Pentagon Senior Executive Service (SES) officials overseeing Special Access Programs (SAPs), though they were vague about when that was.
“TW: I asked; they said they were formed out of necessity to protect themselves after a near disaster in the past almost blew their cover - something to do with an agreement that was reached with a couple of Pentagon SESs overseeing SAPs in those days - were vague about when that was.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:17025-17301 testimony second hand
44
The Watch Committee told Thomas Wilson that years ago, in the past, an audit investigation led to them and nearly outed them, and a nasty back-and-forth battle ensued between them and the investigator and his Pentagon chief, like a tug of war over programme transparency, with money and their hiding out being the issues.
“- They said years ago in past an audit investigation led to them, and it wasn't supposed to - nearly outed! - A battle, a nasty back 'n forth between them and the investigator and his Pentagon chief ensued - like a tug of war for program transparency, they told me - money was the issue - their hiding out became the other issue.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:17349-17670 testimony second hand
45
Thomas Wilson confirmed he called Will Miller around late June 1997 and told him that Miller was right that a Majestic 12 (MJ-12)-like UFO organisation exists.
“Confirmed he called Miller ca. late June '97 and told that he/Miller was right - there is such an organization in existence.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:1738-1852 testimony first hand
46
The Watch Committee told Thomas Wilson that some kind of threat was leveled to blow the lid off them, so they backed down and let the investigator in to complete his job; the Watch Committee works very hard to keep the programme hidden.
“- Some kind of threat was leveled to blow the lid off them so they backed down and let the investigator in to complete his job - (They work very hard to keep program hidden)”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:17731-17895 testimony second hand
47
The prior investigator was officially briefed and given a tour and shown the programme, but Thomas Wilson said the Watch Committee did not say more about whether they showed him a craft or hardware described as "alien" or from a UFO.
“TW: He was officially briefed, given tour, shown their program EWD: Did they show him a craft? Or hardware they said was "alien" or from a UFO? TW: Didn't say more about that.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:17939-18107 testimony second hand
48
After the prior investigator episode, a formal agreement was struck between the Watch Committee and the Special Access Programs Oversight Committee (SAPOC) establishing special access criteria, administered by the contractor committee (programme director, attorney, security director), requiring US government personnel to meet the criteria regardless of their tickets and position.
“- Said after that episode a formal agreement was struck with Pentagon people (SAPOC) to prevent this in future - didn't want a repeat - Special criteria were established in agreement - A special circumstance that must meet rigorous access criteria set by contractor committee - No USG personnel are to gain access unless they met the criteria - to be administered by contractor committee (program director, attorney, security director) irregardless of the tickets and position USG personnel possessed - Literally their way or the highway”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:18116-18645 testimony second hand
49
The Watch Committee refused to tell Thomas Wilson the special access criteria when he asked, which made him angry, leading him to conclude they operate without official oversight or justification, a politically dangerous position.
“EWD: What are criteria? TW: I asked for that and they refused to give answer. I was mad - implication is now - to me - they operate without official oversight or any justification - politically dangerous place to be!”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:18659-18868 opinion first hand
50
The Watch Committee was concerned about who Thomas Wilson had talked to at the Pentagon or elsewhere by phone, fax, or email, wanting an accounting of his conversations because they were concerned about new exposure.
“[Threesome concerned with who TW had talked to at Pentagon or elsewhere - by phone/FAX/email - wanted accounting of conversations - concerned about new exposure]”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:18876-19027 observation second hand
51
The purpose of the Watch Committee's meeting with Thomas Wilson was to tell him they were not going to let him in the door.
“- Purpose of meeting was to tell me this. EWD: What? TW: That they weren't going to let me in the door”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:19039-19137 testimony second hand
52
The Watch Committee told Thomas Wilson that his tickets were all confirmed and valid, but that he was not on the bigot list, and that his tickets alone were not enough because he did not meet the special criteria, so need-to-know authorisation was not granted.
“TW: They said my tickets were all confirmed and valid, but I was not on the bigot list. - My tickets alone were not enough - I didn't meet the special criteria so need to know authorization was not being granted”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:19158-19359 testimony second hand
53
Thomas Wilson said he found information and talked to people during his investigation, but did not name everyone he spoke to, when asked what he told Will Miller.
“TW: I found it, where I looked, who I talked to but did not name every one - that's it.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:1916-1996 testimony first hand
54
Admiral Thomas Wilson arrived ten minutes late to the meeting with Eric W. Davis at the EG&G building, accompanied by two Navy officers in uniform (one full lieutenant and one commander) while he himself wore civilian clothing.
“10:10 (Adm. late) Arrives with two Navy officers in uniform - he's in suit - now civilian In uniform: 1 (full) Lt.; 1 Cmdr.; a petty officer drives car.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:193-341 observation first hand
55
Thomas Wilson went back and forth with the security director and attorney over the access-criteria issue, arguing that his statutory oversight and regulatory authority as Deputy Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) gave him a right to have need to know.
“- Went back 'n forth with them over these points (primarily with security director & attorney) TW: Argued more - they wouldn't accept my arguments that they fell under my statutory oversight and regulatory authority as Deputy Director DIA - under purview for my right to have need to know (oversight, audit, justification issues, etc., etc.)”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:19369-19754 testimony first hand
56
The Watch Committee argued that Thomas Wilson's regulatory and statutory authority as Deputy Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) was not relevant or pertinent to the nature of their programme, and pulled out their bigot list, dated 1990 and updated 1993 and several pages long, to convince him.
“- Regulatory and statutory authority as Deputy Director DIA not relevant or pertinent to nature of their program! - Then they pulled out their bigot list to convince me otherwise - several pages long - dated 1990, updated 1993.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:19763-19983 testimony second hand
57
Most of the people on the Contractor bigot list were program employees identified by name and job title.
“Willing to say that most were program employees - names and titles (job titles)”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:20056-20128 testimony first hand
58
Most of the people on the Contractor bigot list were civilians.
“civilians - didn't recognize any military personnel - could be there.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:20138-20201 testimony first hand
59
Thomas Wilson did not recognize any military personnel on the Contractor bigot list, though military personnel could have been included.
“didn't recognize any military personnel - could be there.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:20150-20201 testimony first hand
60
No politicians appeared on the Contractor bigot list.
“EWD: Any politicians? TW: No”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:20214-20236 testimony first hand
61
No White House names or the President appeared on the Contractor bigot list.
“No White House names, no President!”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:20242-20267 testimony first hand
62
No Congressional people appeared on the Contractor bigot list.
“No Congressional people”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:20280-20297 testimony first hand
63
No Congressional staffers appeared on the Contractor bigot list.
“No Congressional staffers”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:20306-20323 testimony first hand
64
No names on the Contractor bigot list were from the Clinton or Bush Sr. Administrations.
“EWD: Any in Clinton or Bush Sr. Administrations? TW: No!”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:20338-20387 testimony first hand
65
Thomas Wilson recognized a handful of Pentagon individuals on the Contractor bigot list.
“But handful of names were Pentagon individuals I recognized”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:20391-20440 testimony first hand
66
A few of the Pentagon individuals Thomas Wilson recognized on the Contractor bigot list were from the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics (OUSDAT).
“few from OUSDAT”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:20453-20462 testimony first hand
67
One recognized individual on the Contractor bigot list was from another Pentagon department.
“one from another department”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:20470-20487 testimony first hand
68
Another recognized individual on the Contractor bigot list was at the National Security Council (NSC) and was a Pentagon Senior Executive Service (SES) employee.
“another at the NSC who is Pentagon SES employee.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:20499-20538 testimony first hand
69
The program manager of the reverse-engineering program of recovered technological hardware told Thomas Wilson it was not a weapons program.
“Program Manager said they were - Not any weapons program”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:20551-20601 testimony second hand
70
The program manager of the reverse-engineering program of recovered technological hardware told Thomas Wilson it was not an intelligence program.
“Not any intelligence program”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:20612-20633 testimony second hand
71
The program manager of the reverse-engineering program of recovered technological hardware told Thomas Wilson it was not a special operations or logistics program.
“Not any special ops or logistics program”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:20644-20677 testimony second hand
72
The program manager of the reverse-engineering program of recovered technological hardware told Thomas Wilson the programme did not fit standard special access program categories.
“Doesn't fit these categories”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:20688-20706 testimony second hand
73
Thomas Wilson said he did not tell Will Miller everything, and that Miller knows what Wilson did in the Pentagon records group search but no more.
“TW: (laughs) Didn't tell Miller EVERYTHING! Miller knows what I did in Pentagon Records Group search but no more.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:2079-2182 testimony first hand
74
The reverse-engineering program of recovered technological hardware was described to Thomas Wilson as a programme built around technological hardware recovered years earlier.
“They were a reverse engineering program - Something recovered years ago in the past - Technological hardware was recovered”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:20860-20976 testimony first hand
75
Before the June 1997 meeting, Thomas Wilson expected the special access program to involve reverse engineering of recovered Soviet or Chinese hardware such as a missile, intelligence platform, or aircraft.
“So I thought they meant recovered Soviet/Chinese, etc. hardware and reverse engineer it - like a missile or intell platform or aircraft”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:20988-21115 testimony first hand
76
Thomas Wilson thought "UFOs" was being used as a cover story for a sensitive foreign hardware collection and reverse-engineering operation.
“actually came to meeting expecting to find a sensitive foreign collection and reverse engineering operation - thought "UFOs" used as a cover for that”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:21126-21271 opinion first hand
77
When Thomas Wilson suggested the reverse-engineering program of recovered technological hardware involved foreign hardware reverse engineering, the program's representatives told him that was not correct either.
“So I said that and they said they weren't that either”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:21280-21327 testimony second hand
78
The Senior Review Group told Thomas Wilson they would sustain the denial of the contractor's access to the special access program.
“They responded that they would sustain the contractor on their access denial”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:21364-21434 testimony second hand
79
Thomas Wilson argued with the program's representatives during the meeting about the contractor's access denial.
“So I ended up arguing with them a while”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:21443-21477 testimony first hand
80
The meeting broke up after approximately 20 minutes with an agreement to meet again in two to three days.
“Broke up in 20 minutes and they would meet me in 2-3 days”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:21485-21538 testimony first hand
81
Thomas Wilson received a follow-up call two days later, near the end of June 1997, and met again with members of the Senior Review Group.
“Got the call 2 days later (near end of June) and met again with Senior Review Group members”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:21545-21629 testimony first hand
82
The second meeting between Thomas Wilson and the Senior Review Group occurred before the last week of June 1997.
“TW: Before last week of June ('97)”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:21654-21681 testimony first hand
83
At the second meeting, the Senior Review Group told Thomas Wilson they were sustaining the contractor's access denial.
“They told me (TW) that they were sustaining the contractor”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:21688-21736 testimony second hand
84
The Senior Review Group told Thomas Wilson to immediately drop the matter because it did not fall within his oversight.
“that I was to immediately drop the matter and let it go - forget about it as I did not have purview over their project, it didn't fall within my oversight, etc.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:21748-21904 testimony second hand
85
Thomas Wilson considers that Will Miller can make a good educated guess about which contractors have alien hardware.
“Miller can make good educated guess on who (contractors) has alien hardware.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:2188-2255 opinion first hand
86
Thomas Wilson became very angry and started yelling during the meeting with the Senior Review Group.
“I became very angry - started yelling when should have kept my mouth shut”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:21911-21980 observation first hand
87
Will Miller and Steven Greer said Thomas Wilson nearly "got busted" over his investigation into the reverse-engineering program.
“EWD: Miller and Greer said you nearly got busted.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:21991-22028 hearsay second hand
88
Thomas Wilson confirmed he came close to being disciplined over his investigation into the reverse-engineering program.
“TW: Close to that!”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:22041-22050 testimony first hand
89
The chairman of the Senior Review Group told Thomas Wilson, via Will Miller, that if he did not follow their suggestion to drop the matter he would not see promotion to Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA).
“Told Miller Senior Review Group chairman said if I didn't follow their suggestion that I would not see Director DIA promotion”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:22059-22175 hearsay third hand
90
The chairman of the Senior Review Group threatened Thomas Wilson with early retirement if he did not follow their suggestion to drop the matter.
“get early retirement”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:22186-22196 hearsay third hand
91
The chairman of the Senior Review Group threatened Thomas Wilson with losing one or two stars (a reduction in rank) if he did not follow their suggestion to drop the matter.
“lose 1 or 2 stars along the way”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:22208-22236 hearsay third hand
92
Thomas Wilson was very angry, upset, and livid about the pressure placed on him over his investigation, given his position of regulatory and statutory authority over the program.
“Really incredibly angry - upset over this - livid!!! - Why such a big deal over this considering the position of trust I have in the Pentagon - I do have relevant regulatory/statutory authority over their program - that's my position!!!”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:22242-22467 observation first hand
93
Thomas Wilson declined to say whether funding for the reverse-engineering program came from him or through him, or through the Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), citing it as core secret.
“EWD: Is it because funding comes from you or through you? Or Director DIA? TW: Core secret - can't answer”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:22485-22580 administrative first hand
94
Thomas Wilson said he does not pay Will Miller, and remarked that Miller sounds hard up given he pays for a nice Florida home and private beach privilege.
“Do not pay Miller - sounds hard up to pay for nice Florida home and private beach privilege - (laughs)!”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:2265-2360 opinion first hand
95
The people on the Contractor bigot list were corporate types including scientists, technicians, engineers, and managers.
“Corporate types - scientists and technicians - engineers, scientists, managers, etc.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:22652-22732 testimony first hand
96
Thomas Wilson did not recognize any military organisations among the names on the Contractor bigot list.
“TW: None - just OUSDAT people - and two on SAPOC - one other Pentagon office”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:22791-22857 testimony first hand
97
The recognized individuals on the Contractor bigot list were from the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics (OUSDAT), with two from the Special Access Programs Oversight Committee (SAPOC) and one from another Pentagon office.
“just OUSDAT people - and two on SAPOC - one other Pentagon office”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:22798-22857 testimony first hand
98
Paul Kaminski left his position as Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics and left government service in December 1997.
“In Dec. '97 Paul was out as USDAT, left gov't”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:22867-22911 testimony first hand
99
Michael Kostelnik was also replaced in December 1997.
“so was Mike K., replaced too”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:22915-22940 testimony first hand
100
Jacques Gansler became the new Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics (USDAT), starting December 1997.
“Jacques Gansler was new USDAT, started Dec. '97”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:22964-23009 testimony first hand
101
Michael Kostelnik was replaced by Brigadier General M. Ward of the United States Air Force.
“Mike K. was replaced by Brig. Gen. M. Ward (AF)”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:23015-23059 testimony first hand
102
Thomas Wilson spoke with Jacques Gansler in January 1998 about his June 1997 meetings regarding the reverse-engineering program.
“Talked to Gansler in Jan '98 about my June '97 meetings.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:23251-23298 testimony first hand
103
Jacques Gansler had already been briefed on the reverse-engineering program matter by someone else before speaking with Thomas Wilson in January 1998, which surprised Thomas Wilson.
“He was briefed by someone! Surprised me ...”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:23310-23347 observation first hand
104
Jacques Gansler told Thomas Wilson that UFOs are real.
“"UFOs are real, so-called 'alien abductions' not real" - Gansler said this”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:23383-23452 hearsay second hand
105
Jacques Gansler told Thomas Wilson that so-called "alien abductions" are not real.
“"UFOs are real, so-called 'alien abductions' not real" - Gansler said this”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:23383-23452 hearsay second hand
106
Jacques Gansler told Thomas Wilson to drop the matter of the reverse-engineering program and have no further discussion about it.
“Told to drop the matter - no more discussion about it.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:23479-23530 hearsay second hand
107
Thomas Wilson was not familiar with the names Hal Puthoff and Kit Green.
“TW not familiar with names, heard about RV program in 1990.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:23637-23691 testimony first hand
108
Thomas Wilson first heard about the Remote Viewing (RV) program in 1990.
“heard about RV program in 1990”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:23665-23691 testimony first hand
109
Thomas Wilson said he might be willing to talk to Hal Puthoff and would think about it.
“Maybe/maybe not for Hal - would think about it.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:23698-23742 opinion first hand
110
Thomas Wilson said Will Miller can give good advice on which defence companies to look at, and that is all Miller knows.
“TW: Miller can give good advice on which defense companies to look at - that's all he knows.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:2374-2456 opinion first hand
111
Thomas Wilson gave no response on whether he would talk to Kit Green.
“No response on Kit Green.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:23748-23767 observation first hand
112
Thomas Wilson said he preferred never to talk to anyone else about this matter again because it risked exposure, and that it was better to stop talking about it.
“Prefers never to talk to anyone else about this again - risks exposure - better to stop talking, cut it off here.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:23776-23884 opinion first hand
113
Eric W. Davis told Thomas Wilson about Mary Elizabeth Elliot's story concerning TRW.
“Told Wilson about Mary Elizabeth Elliot-TRW story”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:24104-24148 testimony first hand
114
Eric W. Davis told Thomas Wilson about Ingo Swann's story.
“Ingo's story”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:24155-24162 testimony first hand
115
Eric W. Davis told Thomas Wilson about a 1974 remote viewer woman who went to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, trying to make a connection to the reverse-engineering program.
“1974 RVer woman who went to WPAFB - trying to make connection.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:24172-24223 testimony first hand
116
Thomas Wilson considers Mary Elizabeth Elliot's account credible, based on her information and her behaviour with her attorney, Jeffrey W. Griffith.
“Feedback - Mary Elliot sounds like real deal based on her info and behavior with attorney (Jeffrey W. Griffith)”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:24240-24342 opinion first hand
117
Thomas Wilson believes Mary Elizabeth Elliot will probably only fully disclose her account on her deathbed, roughly 30 years after 2002.
“Probably will only come totally clean on her deathbed 30 years from now.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:24354-24422 opinion first hand
118
Thomas Wilson had no information about Ingo Swann's story or about the 1974 remote viewer woman's story from his own sources.
“Don't know about Ingo, Axelrod, or RVer woman at WPAFB - doesn't have info on their stories from sources.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:24429-24526 testimony first hand
119
Eric W. Davis was given Thomas Wilson's office address in Washington, D.C. to mail materials.
“Given office address in D.C. to mail”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:24671-24703 administrative first hand
120
Thomas Wilson planned to retire to the Midwest and close his office in 2003.
“Will retire to Midwest and close office in 2003.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:24710-24753 administrative first hand
121
Oke Shannon told Thomas Wilson about "JA" and said he does not trust JA, calling JA a liar.
“- Oke told all about JA (doesn't trust JA, a liar!)”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:2483-2526 opinion second hand
122
AP-10 group meetings were held at BDM.
“AP-10 group meetings at BDM.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:2533-2557 administrative
123
Oke Shannon briefed Thomas Wilson about the whole BDM matter, including his own role there, and who attended, referencing a book by Blum.
“- References Blum's book. Talked about JA, Blum's book, his (Oke's) role there, who attended, etc. - Oke briefed me on whole BDM thing”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:2564-2691 testimony second hand
124
Oke Shannon talked to Thomas Wilson about the Remote Viewing (RV) programme for ten minutes, and Wilson said he knows something of this Remote Viewing programme.
“Oke briefed me on whole BDM thing - talked about RV program for 10 min. I know something of this RV.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:2663-2760 testimony second hand
125
Oke Shannon told Thomas Wilson that Eric W. Davis was a team player who would keep his mouth shut, had no media connections, would obey all restrictions, was not in government and held no clearances, but had an excellent pedigree and very excellent professional and personal references.
“Oke said I (EWD) was team player, would keep mouth shut, no media connections - obey all restrictions - not in government/no clearances, but pedigree excellent - professional/personal references very excellent.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:2766-2966 opinion second hand
126
Eric W. Davis and Admiral Thomas Wilson sat and talked in Wilson's car behind the EG&G building until 11:20 A.M. while others attended a meeting inside.
“We sit in his car in back of EG&G building. Talk until 11:20 A.M. Others departed for building, to attend meeting inside (at 10:10).”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:374-502 observation first hand
127
During the meeting on 2002-10-16, Thomas Wilson said that upon seeing Eric W. Davis's resume, US Uniformed Services ID copy, Air Force orders and physics paper, which Rich had provided, he figured out who Davis was.
“TW: Hello! The minute I saw your (EWD) resume, US Uniformed Services ID copy, AF orders and physics paper Rich gave, I knew who you were. Put two and two together, figured you out! Figured who you were!!”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:512-705 testimony first hand
128
Thomas Wilson told Oke Shannon it was a bad time and he was too busy to talk to Eric W. Davis.
“TW: Told Oke it's a bad time - time no good to talk to me (EWD) - too busy.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:7210-7276 testimony first hand
129
Thomas Wilson said Oke Shannon had become too difficult to contact, was in and out of hospital, and was extremely sensitive to stress and heart sick.
“Said Oke too difficult to contact anymore - heard he was in and out of hospital - extremely sensitive to stress/heart sick - bad news”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:7282-7411 testimony first hand
130
Thomas Wilson said that when he tried calling Oke Shannon, a person named Linda took messages that were not returned, because she did not want to add much to Oke's plate.
“tried calling: Linda takes messages but none returned, she doesn't want much on Oke's plate for fear...”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:7418-7514 testimony first hand
131
Thomas Wilson left the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) in July 2002 and was replaced by Admiral Lowell Jacoby.
“Three years pass and retiring - left DIA July (2002) - replaced by Adm. Jacoby.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:7577-7649 administrative first hand
132
Thomas Wilson came to the test site special area to wrap up projects that he had begun in 1998, since his successor could not be bothered with them for lack of time and knowledge.
“TW: Came to test site special area to wrap up projects (he began in '98) - successor can't be bothered with right now for lack of time and knowledge.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:7662-7797 testimony first hand
133
Thomas Wilson's trip was set up by the National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA), organised by Rich and Doug, who Wilson said Eric W. Davis knew, who are Association of Former Intelligence Officers (AFIO) members.
“Trip set up by NNSA (National Nuclear Security Agency) - Rich & Doug - you (EWD) know them - AFIO members”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:7845-7943 testimony first hand
134
Rich and Doug told Thomas Wilson that the new Las Vegas chapter of the Association of Former Intelligence Officers (AFIO) needed guest speakers for chapter or public venue events to raise money and membership.
“told about how new Las Vegas chapter needed guest speakers for chapter/public venue - raise money/membership, etc.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:7953-8063 testimony second hand
135
Rich and Doug talked to Thomas Wilson about Eric W. Davis by phone from Washington, D.C., and sent Wilson copies of Davis's NASA papers and other related material, including material about wormholes.
“Rich/Doug talked about you (EWD!) - phoned from DC - sent me copies of your NASA papers and other related - wormholes your thing.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:8068-8191 testimony first hand
136
Thomas Wilson recalled a phone call with Oke Shannon in the fall of 1999.
“TW: I recalled phone call with Oke Shannon in Fall (Aug.?) '99. Big Oke Shannon fan! Go back years in Navy before Oke left for LANL.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:807-930 testimony first hand
137
Rich and Doug sent Thomas Wilson Eric W. Davis's PACAF orders, US ID, Lockheed slides, and some reports Davis wrote for NASA.
“Sent PACAF orders, US ID, Lockheed slides, some reports I wrote for NASA.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:8198-8266 testimony first hand
138
Rich and Doug spoke to Thomas Wilson about Eric W. Davis in September 2002, after Labor Day.
“TW: Oh, Sept., after Labor Day.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:8289-8312 testimony first hand
139
Rich and Doug told Thomas Wilson he should talk to Eric W. Davis about Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) careers and discuss Wilson's career history and mission there.
“Rich/Doug told me I should talk to you about DIA careers, discuss history, mission, my career in that, etc.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:8317-8420 testimony first hand
140
Thomas Wilson had his office do background checks on Eric W. Davis, wanting his own data even though Doug and Rich had offered to do so.
“TW: Had office do background checks. Doug/Rich offered to but wanted my own data to be sure.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:8606-8689 testimony first hand
141
The Association of Former Intelligence Officers (AFIO) and its Washington, D.C. members now in Las Vegas vouched for Eric W. Davis.
“AFIO vouched - AFIO people/DC people now in Vegas vouched.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:8695-8745 testimony first hand
142
Thomas Wilson gave serious thought to meeting Eric W. Davis and recalled Oke Shannon's phone call from 1999, noting Shannon really supported Davis and had good arguments.
“TW: Gave deep serious thought - recalled Oke's call in '99. Oke really supported me (EWD) - had good arguments.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:8759-8856 testimony first hand
143
Thomas Wilson and Oke Shannon have known each other for years going back to when Shannon was in the Navy before he left for Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL).
“Go back years in Navy before Oke left for LANL.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:888-930 testimony first hand
144
Oke Shannon argued that Eric W. Davis would not talk to the press or to UFO or other such groups, had no media connections, and would not talk to Will Miller, Steven Greer, or related people, having no vested interest in publicity, money, fame, or notoriety.
“TW: I (EWD) wouldn't talk to press, to groups (UFO or other such), no media connections, not talk to Miller or Greer or related folks - no vested interest in publicity/money/fame/notoriety, etc.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:8894-9080 hearsay second hand
145
Thomas Wilson was very angry about Will Miller, showing a tense facial expression and angry voice.
“TW: Very furious - very angry about Miller (facial expression tense, angry voice)”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:9358-9429 observation first hand
146
Oke Shannon spoke to Thomas Wilson for two hours in an attempt to convince him to talk to Eric W. Davis about what Shannon had told Will Miller around June 1997 and April 1997.
“TW: Oke talked 2 hours, wanted to convince to talk to me (EWD) about what he told Will Miller ca. June '97 and April '97.”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:941-1055 testimony second hand
147
Thomas Wilson considers that Will Miller violated personal and professional trust, especially among intelligence colleagues and Navy officers, and violated the Navy camaraderie and brotherhood among officers.
“- Violated personal and professional trust - especially among intelligence colleagues/Navy officers - There's Navy camaraderie among officers - brotherhood”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:9438-9580 opinion first hand
148
Will Miller told Steven Greer about his conversation with Thomas Wilson.
“TW: Miller told Greer their conversation”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:9668-9692 testimony first hand
149
Will Miller talked to Leslie Kean, and Boston Globe articles about UFOs subsequently came out that referenced Thomas Wilson.
“TW: Then he talks to Kean and Boston Globe articles came out - Not sure what he told Kean, but articles referenced me (TW)”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:9814-9929 testimony first hand
150
Thomas Wilson said he received phone calls from all over after the Boston Globe articles referencing him came out, and he was furious.
“- FURIOUS! - Got calls from all over”
EWD Notes - Eric Davis Meeting with Adm. Wilson 2002-10-16 char:9935-9965 testimony first hand
151
Steven Greer claims that when Admiral Thomas Wilson saw the leaked document Greer sent him, he was very upset that there were Special Access Program project codenames on the list that were unknown to him, the second-most powerful man in Defense Intelligence.
“When Admiral Tom Wilson saw the leaked document Greer sent him,12 he was, Greer claims, very upset that there were SAP project codenames on the list that were unknown to him, the second-most powerful man in Defence Intelligence.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:12137-12352 hearsay second hand
152
The leaked document Steven Greer sent to Admiral Thomas Wilson's staff related to a security lockdown at Nellis Air Force Base in July 1991.
“The purpose of the document was of little consequence; it related to a security lockdown at Nellis Air Force Base in July 1991.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:12366-12488 administrative
153
Steven Greer alleges that at the April 1997 Pentagon meeting, Admiral Thomas Wilson recognised one of the codenamed entities on the leaked list, made an inquiry, and found it was being run by a contractor who told him 'you don't have a need to know' and hung up and blocked his line.
“'He actually recognised one of these entities and made an inquiry, and it was being run by a contractor,' Greer says. 'When he called them, he said, "I'm Admiral Tom Wilson . . . I want to be read into this project". Guess what happened? They said, "Sir, you don't have a need to know"... They said, "Sir, we cannot discuss this with you further" and they hung up and blocked his line.'13”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:12806-13261 hearsay second hand
154
Steven Greer, Willard Miller and Edgar Mitchell presented Admiral Thomas Wilson with what they were convinced was strong witness evidence to support their belief that the US government was covering up alien visitations to Earth, recovered spacecraft and alien bodies, and technological breakthroughs derived from those discoveries.
“But we know Steven Greer, Willard Miller and Edgar Mitchell presented Admiral Wilson with what they were convinced was strong witness evidence to support their belief that the US government was covering up alien visitations to Earth, recovered spacecraft and alien bodies, and incredible technological breakthroughs purportedly derived from those discoveries.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:14003-14350 testimony first hand
155
Steven Greer says that as the April 1997 Pentagon briefing progressed, Admiral Thomas Wilson began cancelling other appointments because he was so interested in the information.
“'As the briefing progressed,' Greer says, 'he began cancelling other appointments – he was so interested in the information.'14”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:14450-14574 hearsay second hand
156
Edgar Mitchell later confirmed to many friends that the April 1997 Admiral Wilson meeting happened as Steven Greer described.
“Edgar Mitchell later confirmed to many friends that this meeting happened as Greer described.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:14577-14660 testimony first hand
157
John Audette, co-founder of Edgar Mitchell's Quantrek research organisation, told Ross Coulthart, 'Yes, Ed shared with me details about the Admiral Wilson meeting.'
“One of these friends was John Audette, the co-founder of Mitchell's Quantrek research organisation, who responded in detail to my inquiry about this meeting. 'Yes, Ed shared with me details about the Admiral Wilson meeting,' Audette tells me.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:14671-14910 testimony second hand
158
Retired Navy Commander Willard Miller supported Steven Greer's account of Admiral Thomas Wilson's frustration at the April 1997 Pentagon briefing.
“Retired Navy Commander Willard Miller also supported Greer's account of Admiral Wilson's frustration.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:15145-15234 testimony first hand
159
Willard Miller claimed that just before they left the April 1997 meeting, an aide to Admiral Thomas Wilson made the admission that the UAP conspiracy theory called Majestic MJ-12 was actually real.
“He even claimed that, just before they left the meeting, an aide to the admiral made the extraordinary admission that a long-held (and much debunked) UAP conspiracy theory called Majestic MJ-12 was actually real.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:15247-15454 hearsay second hand
160
Steven Greer claims that an aide to Admiral Thomas Wilson told him that the subject of Majestic MJ-12 came up and there had been a lot of debate as to whether it was real, and that the aide said 'we know it exists', but that the Directorate for the Joint Staff did not have the need to know what MJ-12 does.
“Greer says, 'The admiral's aide turned to me and said you know the subject of Majestic MJ-12 came up and there's been a lot of debate as to, you know, whether that's real, whether it ever existed, and he said, you know we know it exists. We here at the intelligence Directorate for the Joint Staff just don't have the need to know what they do.'16”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:16188-16533 hearsay second hand
161
In another account given by Steven Greer, Admiral Thomas Wilson reacted with horror during the briefing, saying, 'Well I have no doubt this is true, but I am horrified that I hadn't known about it.'
“In another account given by Greer, Admiral Wilson (whom Greer had not named at this point) reacted with horror during their briefing. 'After he looked at all this and heard the witness, he turned to us and said: "Well I have no doubt this is true, but I am horrified that I hadn't known about it",' Greer claimed.17”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:16792-17105 hearsay second hand
162
Steven Greer claimed Admiral Thomas Wilson was angry at the illegality of the alleged UAP cover-up, saying that during their briefing they discussed the risk this rogue group posed to the United States, the rule of law and to national security.
“Greer claimed Admiral Wilson was angry at the illegality of the alleged cover-up. 'During this briefing, the admiral and I discussed the risk this rogue group – that had shoved him aside – was to the United States, the rule of law and to national security . . .”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:17317-17564 hearsay second hand
163
Steven Greer claimed Admiral Thomas Wilson told him, 'Well, as far as I am concerned, if you can get people who know about this matter to talk on the record, you have my permission to go to the media with this! This group is illegal!'
“He thought a minute and said, "Well, as far as I am concerned, if you can get people who know about this matter to talk on the record, you have my permission to go to the media with this! This group is illegal!"' Greer claimed he was told.20”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:17755-17994 hearsay second hand
164
In 1998, Steven Greer was invited back to the Defense Intelligence Agency, again with Commander Willard Miller, to brief the then Director, Admiral Thomas Wilson's immediate superior, Lieutenant General Patrick Hughes, on UFOs.
“It is to Greer's credit, for example, that he was invited back in 1998 to the Defence Intelligence Agency, again with Commander Willard Miller, to brief the then Director, Wilson's immediate superior, Lieutenant General Patrick Hughes, 'on UFOs'.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:18395-18635 administrative
165
Ross Coulthart considers that, if Steven Greer's account is accurate, his public outing of both Admiral Thomas Wilson and General Patrick Hughes sent an unhelpful message to any other official contemplating disclosure that they could not expect confidentiality from Greer.
“But, if his account is accurate, his public outing of both Defence Intelligence Agency officials, Admiral Wilson and General Hughes, sent an unhelpful message to any other official contemplating disclosure that they could not expect confidentiality from Greer.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:19319-19573 opinion first hand
166
Admiral Tom Wilson was Deputy Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency and would have needed superior discretion to be granted access to the alleged Waived Unacknowledged Special Access Program on UAPs.
“Admiral Tom Wilson would have known that even he, a Deputy Director of the Defence Intelligence Agency, had to ask to be given access, which was only then given at the discretion of his superiors.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:20199-20385 administrative
167
Admiral Tom Wilson confirmed the 1997 Pentagon meeting with Steven Greer and Edgar Mitchell in an interview with Richard Dolan more than a decade after the meeting.
“The admiral confirmed the 1997 Pentagon meeting with Greer and Mitchell in an interview with Richard Dolan more than a decade later”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:20976-21102 testimony second hand
168
Admiral Tom Wilson told Richard Dolan he agreed to the 1997 Pentagon meeting only because he was curious why a man of Edgar Mitchell's stature would be interested in the subject of UFOs.
“told Dolan he only agreed to it because he was ‘curious why a man of Dr Mitchell’s stature would be interested in such a matter’”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:21113-21234 testimony first hand
169
Admiral Tom Wilson described everything else about the 1997 Pentagon meeting as claimed by Steven Greer as poppycock, and then hung up on Richard Dolan.
“Wilson claimed everything else about the meeting described by Greer was ‘poppycock’ and he then hung up on Dolan.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:21243-21350 testimony first hand
170
In a detailed letter, Admiral Tom Wilson acknowledged the April 1997 Pentagon meeting happened and that it was a briefing.
“His detailed letter in reply23 acknowledged the meeting happened, and that it was indeed a ‘briefing’”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:21849-21941 testimony second hand
171
Admiral Tom Wilson accepted the 1997 meeting on his schedule because Edgar Mitchell was a credible and respected retired US Navy captain and astronaut, and he thought it was the polite thing to do.
“‘I accepted this short meeting on my schedule because Dr Edgar Mitchell was a credible and respected, retired navy captain and astronaut, and I thought it was the polite thing to do.'”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:21961-22139 testimony second hand
172
Admiral Tom Wilson recalled the 1997 Pentagon meeting was scheduled for 30 minutes but possibly lasted a bit longer.
“I recall the meeting was scheduled for 30 minutes, but possibly lasted a bit longer than that.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:22214-22303 testimony second hand
173
Admiral Tom Wilson recalled that his visitors at the 1997 Pentagon meeting raised concerns about possible special access programs dealing with UFOs.
“Wilson recalled ‘my visitors’ concerns about possible “special access programs” dealing with that subject.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:22310-22408 testimony second hand
174
Admiral Tom Wilson believed Edgar Mitchell's team's objective at the 1997 Pentagon meeting was to solicit his assistance in achieving access to or knowledge of the alleged special access programs on UFOs.
“I believe, as some reports suggest, that Dr Mitchell’s team’s objective was to solicit my assistance in achieving access or knowledge of such programs.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:22417-22559 opinion second hand
175
Admiral Tom Wilson stated he did not acknowledge or suggest that special access programs on UFOs existed, nor that he would attempt to gain access if they did, and that he never had knowledge of such programs.
“I most certainly did not acknowledge or even suggest that such programs existed nor that I would attempt to gain access if they did. In fact, I did neither then, nor since then, ever have knowledge of such programs.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:22570-22777 testimony second hand
176
Admiral Tom Wilson said his polite acceptance of the 1997 briefing and understanding of his visitors' concerns may have left an impression he would look into the issues raised, but he never had any intent to do so.
“While they may have chosen to interpret that my polite acceptance of their briefing and understanding of their concerns left open the possibility that I would look into the issues they raised, I never had intent to do so.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:22787-23005 testimony second hand
177
Ross Coulthart suspects the two Defense Intelligence Agency officials involved in the 1997 Pentagon meeting were more interested in UAPs than they publicly admit.
“I suspect, in actual fact, the two Defence Intelligence Agency officials were more interested than they care to publicly admit.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:23376-23497 opinion first hand
178
Ross Coulthart considers it difficult, given the number of witnesses to the 1997 Pentagon meeting, to escape the conclusion that Admiral Tom Wilson gave the impression to Steven Greer's group that he was improperly blocked from accessing UFO information.
“it is difficult to escape the conclusion that Admiral Wilson gave the impression in some way to Greer’s group that he was improperly blocked from accessing UFO information”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:23600-23760 opinion first hand
179
In April 1997, Edgar Mitchell's renown as an astronaut opened the way for an extraordinary briefing with the Deputy Director of Intelligence for the US military's Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Thomas Wilson.
“Which was why in April 1997, Mitchell's renown opened the way for an extraordinary briefing with the Deputy Director of Intelligence for the US military's Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Thomas Wilson.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:8565-8758 administrative
180
Willard Miller had previously served as a navy reservist on Admiral Thomas Wilson's staff.
“He had also previously served as a navy reservist on Admiral Wilson's staff.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:9689-9759 administrative
181
Admiral Thomas Wilson agreed to be briefed about UFOs by Steven Greer and Willard Miller because he was one of the senior military officers whom Miller said was denied knowledge of a secret so-called 'Big Secret'.
“The story goes that Admiral Thomas Wilson agreed to be briefed 'about UFOs' by Greer and Miller because he was one of those senior military officers whom Miller said was denied knowledge of The Big Secret.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:9766-9964 hearsay second hand
182
In advance of their April 1997 Pentagon visit, Steven Greer sent Admiral Thomas Wilson's staff a leaked US National Reconnaissance Office document detailing a series of authentic codenames for highly top-secret Special Access Programs (SAPs).
“In advance of their visit, Greer had sent Admiral Wilson's staff a leaked US National Reconnaissance Office document that detailed a series of what turned out to be authentic codenames for highly top-secret so-called Special Access Programs (SAPs).”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch14:9972-10214 administrative
183
In 1997-06, two months after Edgar Mitchell joined Steven Greer at a meeting with Admiral Thomas Wilson at the Pentagon, Edgar Mitchell wrote a fax to Senator Strom Thurmond.
“In June of 1997, just two months after Mitchell joined Steven Greer at his meeting with Admiral Tom Wilson at the Pentagon, Mitchell's files show he wrote to the powerful Republican Senator from South Carolina, Strom Thurmond”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch25:21612-21856 administrative
184
Asked about the Admiral Wilson memo at an Arlington Institute address in February 2020, Hal Puthoff said it was leaked on the internet and that Wilson was one of the joint chiefs of staff interviewed by his senior scientist colleague Eric Davis, and declined to comment further because it discusses potentially ongoing programs.
“Asked about the Admiral Wilson memo at an Arlington Institute address in February 2020, he responded, ‘That is a question about the Wilson documents. They probably got leaked on the internet. *And Wilson was one of the joint chiefs of staff interviewed by my senior scientist colleague Eric Davis*. Since it discusses potentially ongoing programs, I have no comment.’”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:10770-11128 testimony first hand
185
Hal Puthoff subsequently told Keith Basterfield that he did not mean to confirm that the Wilson interview and notes were authentic, but this explanation does not address what he actually said.
“Dr Puthoff did subsequently tell Keith Basterfield that he did not mean to confirm that the Wilson interview and notes were authentic, but his explanation does not address what he actually said.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:11375-11591 testimony first hand
186
In his June 2020 denial letter, Tom Wilson said the entire memo attributed to Eric Davis, including its characterisation of his attitude, emotions and sentiments about other individuals, is pure fiction.
“In it, he said, ‘The entire memo attributed to Dr Davis, including his characterization of my attitude, emotions and sentiments about other individuals is pure fiction.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:11719-11879 testimony first hand
187
Tom Wilson said that many of the people named in the memo as people he interacted with, including Oke Shannon, Mike Crawford, Linda, Rich and Doug, are completely unknown to him, as are the conversations he purportedly had on Special Access Programs related to UFOs with senior Department of Defence officials.
“Many of the people (Oke Shannon, Mike Crawford, Linda, Rich, Doug) he characterises in the memo as people I interacted with are completely unknown to me, as are the conversations I purportedly had on Special Access Programs related to UFOs with senior officials in the Department of Defence.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:11888-12171 testimony first hand
188
Tom Wilson said he did occasionally meet with some of the people named in the memo, but not on anything remotely related to the content of the Davis memo.
“I did occasionally meet with some of these people, but not on anything remotely related to the content of the Davis memo.’”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:12180-12296 testimony first hand
189
In his interview with Billy Cox, Oke Shannon gave the impression that he actually knew Tom Wilson well.
“In his interview with Cox, Oke Shannon gave the impression that he actually knew Tom Wilson well.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:12559-12651 opinion
190
Oke Shannon told Billy Cox he did not know the provenance of the purported document and did not know whether it is real, but said he knows both Tom Wilson and Eric Davis, that Tom Wilson is an honourable man, and that if this had embarrassed Tom Wilson he was really sorry.
“‘I don’t know the provenance of that purported document – I don’t know whether it’s real or not real,’ Oke Shannon told Billy Cox. ‘Let’s just leave it at the fact that I do know both of these gentlemen. Tom Wilson is an honourable man. And if this has embarrassed Tom Wilson, I am really sorry.’”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:12658-12946 testimony first hand
191
Oke Shannon did not deny to Billy Cox that he had facilitated a meeting between Tom Wilson and Eric Davis or that it happened.
“Oke Shannon did not deny to Billy Cox that he had facilitated a meeting with Tom Wilson or that it happened.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:12955-13054 observation
192
The Admiral Wilson memo asserted that after Tom Wilson's 1997 UFO briefing with Steven Greer and colleagues, Wilson searched for the 'UFO files' in the Pentagon.
“The memorandum asserted that, after Admiral Wilson’s 1997 ‘UFO briefing’ with Greer and his colleagues, Wilson searched for the ‘UFO files’ in the Pentagon.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:13390-13564 hearsay second hand
193
The Admiral Wilson memo named Department of Defence Major General Marshal Ward and William Perry, a former Secretary of Defence, as having told Tom Wilson he should examine files in the Office of the Under Secretary of Defence for Acquisition and Technology.
“The memo named a Department of Defence Major General Marshal Ward and William Perry, a former Secretary of Defence, as having told Wilson he should examine files in the Office of the Under Secretary of Defence for Acquisition and Technology.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:13574-13804 hearsay second hand
194
In the memo, Tom Wilson is reported as saying he was told of 'a special projects record group not belonging to usual SAP - a special subset of the unacknowledged/carve-outs/waived programs'.
“‘They told me of a special projects record group not belonging to usual SAP – a special subset of the unacknowledged/carve-outs/waived programs,’ Wilson reportedly said in the memo.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:13817-13992 hearsay second hand
195
In the memo, Eric Davis asked Tom Wilson which Special Access Program compartment he found the Program hidden in and under which codename.
“Davis then asked Wilson a series of questions, such as which Special Access Program compartment he found the Program hidden in and under which codename.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:13998-14141 hearsay second hand
196
In the memo, Tom Wilson's supposed reply to which compartment the Program was hidden under was 'Core Secret - won't say'.
“‘Core Secret – won’t say,’ was Wilson’s supposed reply.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:14153-14201 hearsay second hand
197
In the memo, Eric Davis asked Tom Wilson who was the Program's project contractor or the government agency that runs it, and Wilson's purported reply was 'An aerospace technology contractor - one of the top ones in US'.
“Davis then asked who was the Program’s project contractor or the government agency that runs it. ‘An aerospace technology contractor – one of the top ones in US,’ was the purported reply.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:14208-14390 hearsay second hand
198
In the memo, when Eric Davis pressed 'Who?', Tom Wilson's purported reply was 'Core secret - can't tell'.
“‘Who?’ Davis pressed. ‘Core secret – can’t tell.’”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:14399-14442 hearsay second hand
199
The Admiral Wilson memo states that by the end of May 1997, Tom Wilson had figured out who the Program's contractor and program manager were and confirmed it with three people.
“Wilson told Davis in the memo that, by the end of May 1997, he had figured out who the Program’s contractor and program manager were and that he even confirmed it with three people”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:15157-15331 hearsay second hand
200
The memo claims that at the end of May 1997, Tom Wilson called the Program manager three times, one of them a conference call with the contractor's security director and corporate attorney.
“The memo claims that at the end of May 1997, Wilson called the Program manager three times, one of them a conference call with the contractor’s security director and corporate attorney.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:15698-15874 hearsay second hand
201
For well over a year after the 'EWD Notes' memo was first published on the internet, Tom Wilson made no comment about it.
“For well over a year after the memo was first published on the internet, the former Defence Intelligence Agency official with whom Dr Eric Davis purportedly had this explosive conversation, Admiral Tom Wilson, made no comment.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:1587-1805 administrative
202
In the memo, Tom Wilson reportedly demanded a formal briefing, saying 'Told them my not being briefed was an oversight they needed to correct - I demanded!'
“He reportedly demanded a formal briefing, ‘Told them my not being briefed was an oversight they needed to correct – I demanded!’”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:15884-16002 hearsay second hand
203
In 1997, Vice Admiral Tom Wilson was the Deputy Director of the Defence Intelligence Agency and was responsible for briefing the generals who advised the president and Joint Chiefs of Staff.
“Remember, in 1997 Vice Admiral Tom Wilson was the Deputy Director of the Defence Intelligence Agency and was responsible for briefing the generals who advised the president and Joint Chiefs of Staff.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:16014-16207 administrative
204
The memo says that whoever Tom Wilson called demanding access hung up on him, and two days later he got a call-back saying they would not speak on the phone, so a face-to-face meeting was organised at the contractor's facility.
“The memo said that whoever it was he rang, demanding access, had the gall to hang up on him. Two days later, Wilson got a call-back and this time he was told they would not speak on the phone, but a face-to-face meeting was organised at the recalcitrant contractor’s facility.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:16462-16729 hearsay second hand
205
The memo states that ten days later, in mid-June 1997, Tom Wilson was ushered into the private contractor's conference room within a secure vault.
“Ten days later, in mid-June 1997, we read Admiral Tom Wilson was ushered into the private contractor’s conference room within a secure vault.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:16739-16874 hearsay second hand
206
The memo claims the cover-up cabal waiting to meet Tom Wilson comprised the unnamed contractor's program director, a security director and a corporate attorney, who dubbed themselves 'the watch committee or gatekeepers'.
“The corporate cover-up cabal waiting to meet Wilson comprised the unnamed contractor’s program director, a security director and a corporate attorney, who the memo claimed had dubbed themselves ‘the watch committee or gatekeepers’.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:17090-17308 hearsay second hand
207
In the memo, Tom Wilson reportedly described confusion on the contractor representatives' part as to why he was looking for them, a very testy tone from all of them, and that they were agitated about and surprised by his call.
“Wilson reportedly described, ‘Confusion on their part as to why I was looking for them and what I wanted from them or wanted to know about. Very testy tone from all of them . . . They were agitated about my calling – surprised by call.’”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:17322-17579 hearsay second hand
208
In the memo, Tom Wilson asked the contractor representatives about their crashed UFO program and MJ-12 and demanded a formal briefing as Deputy Director of the Defence Intelligence Agency and Assistant Joint Chief of Staff J-2.
“and demanded a formal briefing as Deputy Director of the Defence Intelligence Agency and Assistant Joint Chief of Staff J-2.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:17832-17954 hearsay second hand
209
As rumours of an imminent New York Times story mounted in June 2020, Tom Wilson issued a strong denial that any such meeting with Eric Davis ever happened.
“as rumours of an imminent *New York Times* story mounted in June 2020, Wilson finally issued a strong denial that any such meeting with Davis ever happened.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:1819-1966 testimony first hand
210
In the memo, Tom Wilson is quoted as saying he asked for the criteria allowing access to the Program and was refused, and that the implication was that they operate without official oversight or justification, which he considered a politically dangerous place to be.
“Wilson is quoted as saying he asked for the criteria allowing access and he was refused. ‘Implication is now – to me – they operate without official oversight or any justification – politically dangerous place to be,’ he says.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:18687-18908 hearsay second hand
211
The memo says that although Tom Wilson was told he was not on the Bigot list and could not be briefed on the Program, he was then told a major chunk of information regardless.
“Although the memo said Wilson was told he was not on the Bigot list and could not be briefed on the Program, he was then told a major chunk of The (supposed) Big S”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:19817-19975 hearsay second hand
212
An unidentified contractor program manager reportedly said he did not know where the recovered technology was from but had some ideas, and that it was technology not of this Earth, not made by man, not by human hands.
“program manager said they didn’t know where it was from [they had some ideas on this] – it was technology that *was not of this Earth – not made by man – not by human hands*.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:20151-20318 hearsay third hand
213
The unidentified contractor program manager reportedly said the program was trying to understand and exploit the recovered technology and had been ongoing for years with very slow progress.
“Said were trying to understand and exploit technology; their program was going on for years and years with very slow progress,’ Wilson reportedly revealed to Davis.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:20326-20484 hearsay third hand
214
The Admiral Wilson Memo (EWD Notes) claims Tom Wilson was told by Under Secretary for Defence for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics Jacques Gansler that UFOs are real but so-called alien abductions are not real.
“The memo also claimed Wilson was told by the Under Secretary for Defence for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics, Dr Jacques Gansler, that ‘UFOS are real, so-called “alien abductions” not real’.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:20491-20681 hearsay second hand
215
The Admiral Wilson Memo (EWD Notes) claims that after being told he was blocked from access because he was not on the Bigot list (an alleged access-control roster for the alleged secret reverse-engineering program), the unidentified contractor program manager subsequently relented and revealed a great deal about a supposed alien vehicle reproduction program.
“after telling Wilson he was blocked from knowing anything because he was not on the Bigot list, suddenly relented and told him a great deal about it being a supposed alien vehicle reproduction program”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:21223-21416 hearsay second hand
216
Ross Coulthart consulted three defence intelligence sources about the Admiral Wilson Memo (EWD Notes), and the issue that raised the most doubt among people familiar with US government security compartmentalisation was why the contractor program manager would tell Tom Wilson anything at all if he was not on the Bigot list.
“when I consulted three defence intelligence sources about it, this was the issue that raised the most doubt with people who knew how the United States government security compartmentalisation works. Why did they tell him anything at all if he was not on the Bigot list, I was told.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:21569-21872 opinion second hand
217
The Admiral Wilson Memo (EWD Notes) claims that on his return to Washington, Tom Wilson complained to the Senior Review Group members overseeing the Special Access Program Oversight Committee inside the Pentagon and was threatened with his job if he caused trouble.
“on his return to Washington, the memo claims Wilson complained to the Senior Review Group members overseeing the Special Access Program Oversight Committee inside the Pentagon, only to be threatened with his job if he caused trouble.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:22371-22596 hearsay second hand
218
The Admiral Wilson Memo (EWD Notes) claims that the Senior Review Group members supported the contractor's denial of Tom Wilson's access to the alleged secret reverse-engineering program, which shocked him.
“He was shocked that they supported the contractor’s denial of his access to the Program.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:22605-22685 hearsay second hand
219
The Admiral Wilson Memo (EWD Notes) quotes Tom Wilson as saying he was told to immediately drop the matter, let it go, and forget about it because he did not have purview over the contractor's project or oversight of it, and that he became very angry and started yelling when he should have kept his mouth shut.
“‘They told me [TW] . . . that I was to immediately drop the matter and let it go – forget about it as I did not have purview over their project, it didn’t fall within my oversight etc. I became very angry – started yelling when I should have kept my mouth shut,’ the memo asserted Wilson as saying.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:22695-22985 hearsay second hand
220
The Admiral Wilson Memo (EWD Notes) claims Tom Wilson was told that if he did not follow their suggestion to drop the matter, he would not be promoted to Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, would be sent into early retirement, and would lose rank.
“Wilson was supposedly told that, if he did not follow their suggestion, he would not be promoted to the Director of the Defence Intelligence Agency. He would also be sent into early retirement, and he would lose rank.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:22994-23206 hearsay second hand
221
The Admiral Wilson Memo (EWD Notes) quotes Tom Wilson as saying he was really incredibly angry and upset, and questioned why it was such a big deal given the position of trust he had in the Pentagon, asserting he had relevant regulatory and statutory authority over their program.
“‘Really incredibly angry – upset over this – livid!!!’ Wilson reportedly told Davis. ‘Why such a big deal over this considering the position of trust I have in the Pentagon – I do have relevant regulatory/statutory authority over their program – that’s my position.’”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:23213-23468 hearsay third hand
222
Tom Wilson stated in his letter to Ross Coulthart that he never requested nor was denied access to supposed UAP programs, and that he was never threatened with losing his career if he persisted.
“Admiral Wilson, it should be emphasised, was very clear in his letter to me that he never requested nor was he denied such access to supposed UAP programs and neither was he threatened he would lose his career if he persisted.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:23480-23723 testimony first hand
223
No one who should know about the purported meeting between Tom Wilson and Eric Davis was prepared to confirm the authenticity of the Admiral Wilson Memo (EWD Notes) on the record.
“We are left with the fact that, if the ‘EWD Notes’ memo is genuine, not one person who should know about the purported Admiral Wilson meeting is actually prepared to confirm its authenticity on the record.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:23971-24169 observation first hand
224
Tom Wilson, his former Defence Department colleagues, and Willard Miller all cast doubt on the authenticity of the Admiral Wilson Memo (EWD Notes).
“And the comments of Tom Wilson, his former Defence Department colleagues, and Commander Willard Miller pour cold water on its authenticity.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:24177-24303 observation first hand
225
Ross Coulthart considers that without a senior Department of Defense official, Eric Davis, Tom Wilson, or Hal Puthoff going on the record admitting to the veracity of the Admiral Wilson Memo (EWD Notes), its claims must be treated with extreme scepticism and as a hoax document until proved otherwise.
“But without a senior Department of Defence official, Eric Davis, Admiral Wilson or Hal Puthoff, going on the record admitting to the veracity of the memorandum, its claims must be treated with extreme scepticism. It has to be treated as a hoax document until proved otherwise.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:25149-25415 opinion first hand
226
Tom Wilson has categorically denied that the meeting with Eric Davis described in the Admiral Wilson Memo (EWD Notes) ever happened.
“But Wilson has categorically denied the meeting with Dr Eric Davis ever happened.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:26887-26959 testimony first hand
227
The Admiral Wilson memorandum, on its face, supports what Steven Greer, Edgar Mitchell, Willard Miller, Steven Lovekin and Shari Adamiak each said they were told by Tom Wilson at their April 1997 Pentagon meeting about a supposed UAP cover-up.
“The reason the Admiral Wilson memorandum matters is because, on its face, it supports everything Dr Steven Greer, Edgar Mitchell, Commander Willard Miller, Stephen Lovekin and Shari Adamiak each said they were told by Admiral Wilson at their April 1997 Pentagon meeting, discussing the supposed UAP cover-up.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:2846-3151 administrative
228
If authentic, the memo means Tom Wilson told the April 1997 Pentagon meeting attendees that he investigated codenames in a document leaked to him by Steven Greer, discovered a secret group working on recovered alien technology, and was blocked from finding out more about it.
“If authentic, it means Wilson truly did tell them he investigated the codenames in a leaked document given to him by Greer, that he discovered a secret group working on recovered alien technology and that he was blocked from finding out any more about it.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:3155-3434 hearsay second hand
229
The Admiral Wilson Memo purports to detail what Defence Intelligence Agency Admiral Tom Wilson admitted to Eric Davis in a private meeting in Las Vegas in 2002.
“purporting to detail what Defence Intelligence Agency Admiral Tom Wilson admitted to Eric Davis in a private meeting in Las Vegas in 2002”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:367-500 administrative
230
One quotation attributed to Tom Wilson in the Admiral Wilson memo has him saying to Eric Davis, 'If you blow my trust, I'll deny meeting you, deny everything said.'
“One of the quotations attributed to Wilson in the memo has him saying to Dr Davis, ‘If you blow my trust, I’ll deny meeting you, deny everything said.’”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:3810-3955 hearsay second hand
231
Tom Wilson now categorically denies the conversation with Eric Davis described in the memo ever happened.
“we also need to weigh that with the fact that Admiral Wilson now categorically denies this conversation with Eric Davis ever happened.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:4583-4708 testimony first hand
232
In his memo, Eric Davis claims to have met Vice Admiral Tom Wilson, the recently retired Director of the US Defence Intelligence Agency, on 2002-10-16, in a car parked in the carpark of a corporate office building in Las Vegas.
“In his memo, Davis claims to have met the recently retired Director of the US Defence Intelligence Agency, Vice Admiral Thomas Wilson, on 16 October 2002, in a car parked in the carpark of a corporate office building in Las Vegas.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:4818-5042 hearsay second hand
233
Tom Wilson has told Ross Coulthart that the meeting described in the Admiral Wilson memo never happened and that the memo is a lie.
“You need to bear in mind, however, that Admiral Tom Wilson has told me this meeting never happened, that the memo is a lie.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:5743-5862 testimony first hand
234
The Admiral Wilson memo claims Tom Wilson discovered that the US government had long hidden a program secretly attempting to reverse-engineer recovered extra-terrestrial craft, kept hidden since the 1947 Roswell crash.
“Wilson reportedly told Davis that he discovered the US government had long hidden a program secretly attempting to reverse-engineer recovered extra-terrestrial craft. This monstrous secret had been kept, and the alien craft hidden, ever since the Roswell crash in 1947.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:6032-6296 hearsay second hand
235
In a June 2020 letter, Tom Wilson said the Eric Davis memo contains detailed accounts of alleged efforts by him to get access to Special Access Programs and of meetings he supposedly had with contractors or Special Access Program managers, and that he participated in no such meetings and never formally or informally requested such access.
“‘The Dr Eric Davis memo contains somewhat detailed accounts of alleged efforts by me to get access to Special Access Programs . . . and of meetings I supposedly had with various contractors or Special Access Program managers/overseers. I participated in no such meetings on these subjects. I never formally or informally requested any such access, was never denied such access and was never threatened to have my career “derailed” if I persisted,’ he told me.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:7043-7525 testimony first hand
236
Tom Wilson denied visiting Las Vegas in 2002 and denied ever meeting Eric Davis.
“Wilson denied visiting Vegas in 2002 and had no knowledge of ever meeting Dr Eric Davis.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:7529-7611 testimony first hand
237
Tom Wilson said the only time he was ever in Las Vegas was for a Carrier Air Wing Three deployment to Nellis Air Force Base in 1979 or 1980.
“He said the only time he was ever in Las Vegas was for a Carrier Air Wing Three deployment to Nellis Air Force Base in 1979 or 1980.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:7618-7745 testimony first hand
238
Tom Wilson said that in October 2002 he was on 'terminal leave' and had retired from the navy for about three months, staying at an isolated camp in Maine before starting work for Alliant Technosystems in November.
“He says that in October 2002 he was on ‘terminal leave’ and retired from the navy for about three months, staying at an isolated camp in Maine before he started work for Alliant Technosystems in November.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:7751-7946 testimony first hand
239
Vice Admiral Tom Wilson met with UAP researchers in the Pentagon in 1997.
“As detailed earlier, we know for sure that Vice Admiral Tom Wilson met with UAP researchers in the Pentagon in 1997.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:7957-8068 administrative
240
Multiple first-hand witnesses from the 1997 Pentagon meeting, including astronaut Edgar Mitchell, said that Tom Wilson admitted he had discovered a secret US government UAP program.
“Multiple first-hand witnesses from that 1997 meeting, including astronaut Edgar Mitchell, said that Wilson admitted he had discovered a secret US government UAP program.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:8074-8235 testimony second hand
241
On the last page of the Admiral Wilson memo, Tom Wilson reportedly asks Eric Davis, 'What will you do with this?'
“On the last page, Wilson reportedly asks Davis, ‘What will you do with this?’”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:9384-9482 hearsay second hand
242
In the memo, Eric Davis responded to Tom Wilson's question by telling him he would keep it for private and personal research and assured him he would keep his mouth shut.
“Davis responded by telling Wilson he would keep *it* for private and personal research. He assured Wilson he would keep his mouth shut.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:9607-9737 hearsay second hand
243
There is a rumour that Eric Davis kept an audio recording of the purported conversation with Tom Wilson.
“The rumour is that Davis did keep an audio recording of the purported conversation.”
In Plain Sight 2023-11-17 ch26:9744-9814 hearsay
244
In the late 1990s, Eric Davis met and talked with Vice Admiral Thomas R. Wilson, who was Director of Intelligence (J2) for the Joint Staff.
“in the late 1990s, Eric met and chatted up Vice Admiral Thomas R. Wilson, who was Director of Intelligence (J2) for the Joint Staff”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch12:7567-7693 testimony second hand
245
Thomas R. Wilson began asking questions after noticing certain black program line items in budgets that crossed his desk.
“Vice Admiral Wilson, curious about certain black program line items in the budgets that crossed his desk, began asking questions.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch12:8956-9075 testimony second hand
246
Thomas R. Wilson met with representatives of an aerospace corporation and their attorney to ask what they were doing with a specific classified budget line item.
“He got a meeting with representatives of a certain aerospace corporation—and their attorney. Wilson put his cards on the table: Just what were they doing with this specific line item?”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch12:9086-9264 testimony second hand
247
Thomas R. Wilson discovered that a contractor was part of an extremely secret program focused on retrieving and reverse-engineering crashed advanced vehicles of unknown origin not made by humans.
“He discovered that the contractor was part of an extremely secret program focused on retrieving and reverse-engineering crashed advanced vehicles of unknown origin and not made by humans.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch12:9271-9451 testimony second hand
248
An aerospace contractor's attorney told Thomas R. Wilson that if he continued to ask questions about the classified retrieval program, it could get him fired and cause him to lose his pension.
“the contractor’s attorney brashly informed the admiral that if he continued to ask questions, it could get him fired and cause him to lose his pension”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch12:9736-9879 testimony second hand
249
Thomas R. Wilson confided the details of his encounter with the aerospace contractor to Eric Davis and never spoke of it again, even after the Wilson/Davis memo leaked.
“He confided the details of this encounter to Davis and never spoke of it again, even after the memo leaked.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch12:9913-10013 testimony second hand
250
Thomas R. Wilson's credentials included Vice Director of Intelligence for the Joint Staff.
“Vice Director of Intelligence for the Joint Staff”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch43:140-184 administrative
251
Thomas R. Wilson's credentials included Director of Intelligence for the United States Atlantic Command.
“and Director of Intelligence for the United States Atlantic Command”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch43:191-251 administrative
252
Thomas R. Wilson later became the 13th Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency.
“Later Wilson became the 13th Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency.”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch43:260-326 administrative
253
Thomas R. Wilson's credentials included Associate Director of Central Intelligence for Military Support at the Central Intelligence Agency.
“His other credentials included the Associate Director of Central Intelligence for Military Support at the Central Intelligence Agency”
Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs 2024-08-19 ch43:5-132 administrative

Thomas Wilson

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