Brief
UAP Gerb
The claims the writer was given for UAP Gerb, in the order they were given.
1
UAP Gerb has led multiple letters to various Federally Funded Research and Development Centers (FFRDCs).
“And Congressman, you have led multiple letters to various FFRDCs.”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:06:36.8-00:06:40.3 administrative second hand
2
UAP Gerb considers that legal interrogatives sent to the MITRE Corporation, MIT Lincoln Laboratory, and cabinet-level agencies and services are more effective in pursuit of Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) disclosure than the released document files and videos.
“I think the legal interrogatives sent to the MITRE Corporation, MIT Lincoln Labs, cabinet level agencies and services are far more effective in pursuit of disclosure.”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:07:05.7-00:07:14.8 opinion first hand
3
UAP Gerb considers that legal interrogatives are likely leading to a domino effect of discovering other Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) records and materials held by other private and semi-private companies.
“as we've kind of seen of late, these interrogatives are likely leading to a domino effect of discovering other records, other materials within other private companies, semi-private companies.”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:07:16.1-00:07:26.5 opinion first hand
4
UAP Gerb expects to run into difficulty obtaining Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) related records held by the United States Department of Energy.
“we're probably going to run into some trouble with Department of Energy held records.”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:07:37.5-00:07:41.3 opinion first hand
5
At the UAPDF event, Hal Puthoff stated that if he revealed everything he knew about the subject of Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP), he would go to jail.
“today at the UAPDF event, you stated if you revealed everything you knew about the subject, you would go to jail.”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:08:10.9-00:08:16.0 testimony second hand
6
The United States Department of Energy is subject to a statutory-authority classification system that is different from the standard executive-order-based classification system used by the United States Department of Defense (DoD).
“the Department of Energy would be a really good place to hide exotic materials, anomalous materials because of the statutory authority that the Department of Energy is subject to, which is completely different than the standard executive order based classification system that exists within the DoD?”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:08:34.0-00:08:50.0 opinion first hand
7
Kona Blue was a Department of Homeland Security Prospective Special Access Program (SAP) material transfer effort.
“You're talking about the Kona Blue, Department of Homeland Security Prospective Special Access Material Transfer, correct?”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:12:33.9-00:12:39.2 administrative first hand
8
There were several attempts to divest materials to the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) or to Bigelow Aerospace.
“There were several attempts to divest materials to the AAWSAP or to BAS?”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:12:52.7-00:12:57.2 administrative first hand
9
UAP Gerb identifies Glenn Gaffney of the CIA Directorate of Science and Technology (DS&T) as one of the individuals who applied pressure against funding earlier efforts to obtain materials from aerospace corporations.
“Yeah, Glenn Gaffney at the DS&T, one of them.”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:15:18.6-00:15:21.8 hearsay first hand
10
An earlier attempt to obtain materials from aerospace corporations involved Lockheed Martin Space Systems Company.
“Lockheed Martin Space Systems.”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:15:31.0-00:15:31.8 administrative first hand
11
Eric Davis and Christopher Mellon have said that the legacy program ceased in 1989 due to lack of progress.
“are you echoing the sentiments of some of your compatriots like Eric Davis and Christopher Mellon that the program was ceased in 1989 due to lack of progress?”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:32:57.0-00:33:04.5 hearsay second hand
12
Glenn Gaffney, a former CIA Director of Science and Technology and Deputy Director, was one of the gatekeepers who stopped material transfers to the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP).
“one of those gatekeepers that stopped some of these material transfers to the AAWSAP was Glenn Gaffney, former CIA Director of Science and Technology, Deputy Director.”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:38:43.5-00:38:51.1 testimony first hand
13
Steve Cantrell is named as one of the legacy program's gatekeepers and is the Special Assistant to the Deputy Undersecretary of the Air Force.
“One name that comes to mind is, of course, Mr. Steve Cantrell, who's the Special Assistant to the Deputy Undersecretary of the Air Force.”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:38:55.8-00:39:02.2 testimony first hand
14
David Grusch testified that the legacy program control group involves a cadre of senior executive officials, many at the Senior Executive Service (SES) level, including DARPA Special Access Program Central Office (SAPCO) personnel and senior figures within the Office of the Secretary of the Air Force.
“Dave Grusch actually testified to this. Many of these being SCS level senior executive service individuals, DARPA SAPCOs, very senior figures within the Secretary of the Air Force like we just spoke of.”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:39:13.0-00:39:25.8 testimony second hand
15
The legacy program control group has functioned as a weaponised control group providing programme protection and programme-exposure mitigation.
“This has been a weaponized control group to provide program protection and program exposure mitigation.”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:39:27.0-00:39:33.6 opinion first hand
16
There is a legacy program that existed separately from the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP).
“So there's the legacy program. There's the AAWSAP, which was not part of the legacy program, existed outside of it”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:45:57.5-00:46:03.7 testimony first hand
17
In its later years the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) attempted to obtain craft materials and data from the legacy program through the now-deceased Dr. Jim Ryder.
“largely in terms of its later years, attempted to pry craft materials, data, et cetera, out of the legacy program through now deceased Dr. Jim Ryder”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:46:04.2-00:46:11.8 testimony first hand
18
Jim Ryder is deceased.
“now deceased Dr. Jim Ryder”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:46:10.7-00:46:11.8 administrative first hand
19
The 2010 Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) 10-month report contained an idea for a project called Project Forum, intended to use pop culture figures and superstars in California to push disclosure and global awareness of the UAP topic.
“back in the 2010 AAWSAP reports, I think this was the 10-month report, there was an idea for something called Project Forum, which was to essentially attract pop culture figures, pop stars, superstars in California specifically, and use them as a vehicle to push disclosure, push global awareness on the topic”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:47:45.4-00:48:05.7 testimony first hand
20
There seems to be a beautiful data set for Avi Loeb's council alleged to be from a National Security Council activity called Immaculate Constellation, established in 2017.
“This would be what some whistleblowers and others have alleged is a National Security Council activity called Immaculate Constellation that was established in 2017.”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:51:47.5-00:51:54.6 hearsay second hand
21
UAP Gerb believes the Immaculate Constellation activity of the National Security Council serves as a repository for high-quality imagery intelligence and signals intelligence of both non-human technical vehicles and reproduction vehicles.
“this activity out of the National Security Council, again, is a basically catcher's mitt for a trove of very high quality imagery intelligence, signals intelligence of both non-human technical vehicles and reproduction vehicles, meaning our copycat vehicles of these systems”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:52:00.8-00:52:18.1 opinion first hand
22
UAP Gerb states that the Immaculate Constellation data would be held in the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA).
“This data, of course, would be held in the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency.”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:52:19.0-00:52:22.0 opinion first hand
23
The MITRE Corporation receives 99 percent of its funding from the US government.
“such semi-private systems like the MITRE Corporation that receives 99% of its funding from the US government”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:55:36.5-00:55:41.5 testimony first hand
24
UAP Gerb states that semi-private institutions such as the MITRE Corporation are used as a method to keep programmes outside government control while the US government still retains possession of the programme, materials, and institutional knowledge.
“is the perfect method in which to keep programs outside of government control, but for the US government to still retain possession of the program, of materials, of institutional knowledge even”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:55:42.3-00:55:52.7 opinion first hand
25
Historically, Sandia National Laboratories, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Los Alamos National Laboratory, and Oak Ridge National Laboratory have been extremely culpable in UAP-related retrieval operations, especially right after World War II.
“historically, Sandia, Lawrence Livermore, Los Alamos, and Oak Ridge have been extremely culpable in these operations, especially right after World War II”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:56:21.0-00:56:29.2 opinion first hand
26
The Manhattan Project was translated into what could be called a follow-on effort after World War II.
“once the Manhattan Project was kind of translated onto what you could call the Manhattan Project 2.0”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:56:29.6-00:56:33.3 opinion first hand
27
Vannevar Bush established the relationship between scientists and the US government.
“You can actually thank one of the greatest scientific minds in US history, Dr. Vannevar Bush, for establishing the relationship between the scientists and between the US government.”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:56:34.4-00:56:41.7 opinion first hand
28
In 1948, President Harry Truman is alleged to have established classified presidential executive orders, referred to by Eric Davis as Presidential Emergency Action Documents (PEADs), that relegated custody of recovered disks to Atomic Energy Commission National Lab Control to be studied under Vannevar Bush's Joint Research and Development Board and its successor, the Research and Development Board.
“there are serious credible allegations that within the late 40s, 1948, to be specific, President Harry Truman established classified presidential executive orders, also referred to by your colleague, Dr. Eric Davis, as PEADS, presidential emergency action documents, that relegated custody of recovered disks to Atomic Energy Commission National Lab Control to be studied under Vannevar Bush, his soon to be Joint Research and Development Board and then Research and Development Board”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:56:53.3-00:57:19.8 hearsay
29
UAP Gerb considers the allegation that President Harry Truman established classified 1948 presidential executive orders relegating recovered disks to Atomic Energy Commission National Lab Control factually correct.
“And I do think that is factually correct.”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:57:20.0-00:57:22.3 opinion first hand
30
UAP Gerb states that the secrecy apparatus of the legacy programs, largely established as a centralised effort in 1947, has compounded and grown out of control.
“The secrecy apparatus of these programs, which were largely established as a centralized effort in 1947, have compounded and grown and spiraled so out of control.”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:57:49.7-00:57:58.4 opinion first hand
31
Hal Puthoff has referred to a specific element of the legacy program being shut down in 1989, which caused confusion because it was not the entire programme.
“when Dr. Puthoff's talking about the program being shut down in 1989, there was so much confusion. And I think we reached a good point today where it wasn't the program that was shut down, but a specific element of the legacy program that was shut down”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:58:00.2-00:58:11.5 testimony second hand
32
There are allegations that Lockheed Martin Space Systems Company and Northrop Grumman established their own retrieval and recovery activities, self-funded through Independent Research and Development (IRAD) funds.
“specific aerospace contractors, I'll name them Lucky Martin and Northrop Grumman, established their own retrieval and recovery activities with self-fund through independent research and development funds”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 00:58:17.5-00:58:27.5 hearsay
33
Avi Loeb states that if he were concerned about anything, it would be the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency Security and Intelligence Directorate (DARPA SID) and the Air Force Office of Special Investigations Programs and Jurisdiction (AFOSIPJ).
“If you were to be concerned, I'd be concerned about DARPA's Security and Intelligence Directorate, DARPA SID, and AFOSIPJ, the Office of Special Projects. So if you have any reason to be concerned, I would look at those elements for a bit of worry.”
Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 2026-06-30 01:01:34.5-01:01:47.0 opinion first hand
34
Jason Samosa tried to paste all of UAP Gerb's transcripts into a single document to search them, and Microsoft Word failed because the text ran to about a thousand pages.
“the other day I, I, I tried to copy and paste all of his transcripts into a single document so I could control-F them and, uh, Microsoft Word broke. He couldn't handle it. There was like a thousand pages.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:52:51.0-01:53:00.8 testimony first hand
35
A secrecy faction seeking to keep UFO information contained has two options: improving data leak prevention, and psychologically manipulating individual researchers based on their profile, in Jason Samosa's assessment.
“if you're part of the secrecy faction and you've been tasked with trying to keep this information in, what are your options? You can go and you can say, we need to improve our data leak prevention system... The other one is how do you deal with someone like Gerb?... number one is you can start to psychologically manipulate someone based on their profile.”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 01:53:08.8-01:53:30.7 opinion first hand
36
UAP Gerb is a UAP researcher, investigator and podcast host.
“[note: UAP Gerb - UAP researcher, investigator, and podcast host]”
The UFO Cover-Up Leads to One Secret Society — and One Final Event 2026-07-14 line 118 administrative
37
UAP Gerb cannot work out how Chris Ramsay performed his card tricks and does not know where he was tricked.
“to this day i've been trying to think about how you did that and i just have no idea i i have no idea where i was tricked”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:00:12.8-00:00:18.6 testimony first hand
38
UAP Gerb had never seen a magic show or card tricks before meeting Chris Ramsay.
“I mean, I'd never seen a magic show before. I really hadn't even seen card tricks.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:00:31.9-00:00:35.8 testimony first hand
39
During the recording of Jesse Michels, UAP Gerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner, Chris Ramsay performed a card trick in which UAP Gerb selected the four of spades, and Chris Ramsay claimed to be reading UAP Gerb's microexpressions to identify the card.
“Is that it? Four of spades. All right. So now here's the thing. So... I didn't actually read your microexpressions. This is all performative. I already knew what card you chose.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:04:19.4-00:04:34.9 observation first hand
40
Chris Ramsay did not read UAP Gerb's microexpressions during the card trick performed in Jesse Michels, UAP Gerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner; the reading was performative and Chris Ramsay already knew which card had been chosen.
“I didn't actually read your microexpressions. This is all performative. I already knew what card you chose.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:04:27.8-00:04:34.9 testimony first hand
41
UAP Gerb attempted to anticipate which card Chris Ramsay wanted him to take and deliberately chose a different one, yet still selected the card Chris Ramsay intended.
“I tried to game out what you wanted me to pick and choose a different one. Yeah. So I just don't know how I was led to pick the one card you wanted me to.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:05:53.1-00:06:00.9 testimony first hand
42
Tim Taylor's name has never come up as a key player in UAP Gerb's study of the programmes.
“It's weird because Tim Taylor doesn't cross over into my lane of studying the programs at all. Like Tim Taylor's name never comes up.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:12:34.6-00:12:42.0 testimony first hand
43
Tim Taylor was associated with the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA).
“NASA, but still in terms of like actual program efforts, his name has never really come up”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:12:44.5-00:12:48.7 administrative first hand
44
Harald Malmgren held his position at the Institute for Defense Analyses (IDA) as a non-official cover position.
“He had IDA as kind of his knock position to the Institute for Defense Analyses.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:16:03.8-00:16:07.2 opinion first hand
45
The film Close Encounters of the Third Kind includes references to Lockheed and TRW Inc., including crates.
“hey, why did you include Lockheed and TRW in Close Encounters? Why'd you have those crates?”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:24:19.7-00:24:23.9 observation first hand
46
The artwork for the triangular craft in The X-Files was commissioned from forensic artist Bill McDonald.
“that craft, the artwork from that, I talk about this all the time, was commissioned to an art forensic artist named Bill McDonald.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:25:52.5-00:25:58.1 administrative first hand
47
Bill McDonald designed many craft depictions, including depictions relating to the Roswell case.
“He also designed a lot of the craft for like Roswell depictions and so forth.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:25:59.1-00:26:02.2 administrative first hand
48
Bill McDonald called the triangular craft he depicted the XF-131 Super Sentinel.
“But Bill McDonald, that craft, he called it the XF-131 Super Sentinel.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:26:02.4-00:26:06.4 administrative first hand
49
Bill McDonald's depiction of the XF-131 Super Sentinel was based on a 1992 meeting with two Lockheed engineers and two Northrop engineers at a Denny's in Antelope Valley, California.
“And that was based off of a meeting with two Lockheed and two Northrop engineers at a Denny's in Antelope Valley in 1992.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:26:07.3-00:26:12.2 administrative first hand
50
The Lockheed and Northrop engineers who met Bill McDonald at a Denny's in Antelope Valley in 1992 worked out of Helendale and Tejon, California.
“These engineers worked out of Helendale and Tejon.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:26:13.7-00:26:15.4 administrative first hand
51
UAP Gerb has spoken with Bill McDonald, who maintains that the craft depicted in the Tehachapi Triangle artwork is a real craft but will not disclose the names of the Lockheed and Northrop engineers who described it.
“And I've talked to Bill MacDonald as well. He won't give up the engineers' names, but according to him, this is a real craft.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:26:25.3-00:26:31.1 hearsay second hand
52
Chris Ramsay considers it risky for David Grusch to sit down with UAP Gerb, for the same reason David Grusch would probably not sit down with Bob Lazar: the conversation would stray into material that should not be discussed.
“I feel like it'd be dangerous for Dave Grusch to sit down with you. Same reason Dave Grusch wouldn't probably sit down with Bob Lazar, where it's like you guys are going to talk about some stuff that like literally you shouldn't be talking about.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:30:20.3-00:30:34.1 opinion first hand
53
UAP Gerb has never held a security clearance, so he can cross disclosure lines that David Grusch cannot cross without risking imprisonment.
“because like I've never had a clearance. I can cross lines that he can't without being thrown in jail. ... Because I can cross lines that he will be imprisoned and made an example of if he crosses.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:30:35.0-00:30:42.0 testimony first hand
54
Jesse Michels considers UAP Gerb's work the open-source equivalent of what David Grusch did at the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force.
“you're doing the open source version of what he did at the UAPTF, I think”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:31:34.0-00:31:37.8 opinion first hand
55
Bobby Ray Inman served as director of the National Underwater Reconnaissance Office (NURO).
“You could have a whole conversation about his time as director of NURO.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:36:37.3-00:36:39.8 administrative
56
The National Underwater Reconnaissance Office (NURO) was formed in 1969 to coordinate reconnaissance activity between the United States Navy and the CIA Directorate of Science and Technology (DS&T).
“No, NURO was formed in 1969 out of the need to coordinate Navy and CIA DS&T reconnaissance activity.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:36:43.8-00:36:51.6 administrative
57
Until 1974 the National Underwater Reconnaissance Office (NURO) was contested between the United States Navy and the CIA Directorate of Science and Technology (DS&T).
“So up until 1974, NERO was a tug of war between the Navy and DS&T.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:36:52.1-00:36:56.1 administrative
58
Bobby Ray Inman had an association with the Wackenhut Corporation.
“Yeah, Wackenhut as well.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:37:09.8-00:37:11.3 administrative
59
UAP Gerb believes Russia conducts underwater reconnaissance.
“Chris Ramsay: Are they not doing any underwater reconnaissance? UAP Gerb: I believe they are.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:37:18.6-00:37:21.4 opinion first hand
60
UAP Gerb considers that the United States may have reached the ocean seabed for reconnaissance purposes before Russia did, making much of the oceans denied territory to Russia.
“I think one of the questions is, is did the Americans beat them to the punch?... So we have denied territory with a lot of the oceans.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:37:33.1-00:37:36.8 opinion first hand
61
Under the National Underwater Reconnaissance Office (NURO), Operation Ivy Bells and other programmes placed reconnaissance sensors on the seabed across the globe.
“Because under NURO, like the Ivy Bells programs and basically various programs to put reconnaissance sensors and activities on the seabed across the entire globe”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:37:35.8-00:37:43.8 administrative
62
Gene Sticco is the person associated with the inherited Russian UFO diagram files discussed on Ross Coulthart's programme.
“Oh, Gene Sticco”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:38:37.8-00:38:38.1 administrative
63
UAP Gerb characterises the personnel watching Dan Burisch as deputies of Majestic 12 (MJ-12).
“Like MJ-12 deputies essentially.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:41:24.3-00:41:25.7 opinion first hand
64
Clint of the Night Shift podcast holds high confidence that the photograph said to show Dan Burisch with Mike McConnell is genuine, but UAP Gerb considers the identification not yet conclusive.
“yeah Clint from uh night shift is pretty positive on that but i don't think it's conclusive yet... but he's really high confidence on it but i don't i don't think it's been definitive”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:43:07.6-00:43:16.3 opinion second hand
65
UAP Gerb affirms that there were efforts to make Hillary Clinton the disclosure president.
“Chris Ramsay: it seems like she was going to be the disclosure president. UAP Gerb: There were efforts to do that.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:44:12.3-00:44:16.0 opinion first hand
66
UAP Gerb would choose Edward C. Aldridge, also known as Pete Aldridge, as a person he would want to interview.
“it would be a man by the name of Edward C. Aldridge, also known as Pete Aldridge.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:51:43.9-00:51:49.2 opinion first hand
67
Edward C. Aldridge served as Secretary of the Air Force and as Under Secretary of the Air Force.
“this guy was a secretary of the Air Force and undersecretary of the Air Force.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:51:53.8-00:51:57.2 administrative
68
UAP Gerb regards Edward C. Aldridge's career record as comparable only to that of Bobby Ray Inman or Donald Kerr.
“His CV is equatable only to somebody like Bobby Raymond or Donald Kerr.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:51:58.4-00:52:02.1 opinion first hand
69
Edward C. Aldridge was chief executive of The Aerospace Corporation.
“I mean, this guy was CEO of the Aerospace Corporation.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:52:03.4-00:52:05.6 administrative
70
Edward C. Aldridge was a senior board member at LTV Aerospace, which eventually transitioned into E-Systems.
“a senior, I think, board member at LTB Aerospace, which was eventually transitioned to eSys”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:52:08.8-00:52:13.9 administrative
71
E-Systems was a Central Intelligence Agency shell company that was later bought by the Raytheon Company.
“tems, which was a CIA shell company and then bought up by Raytheon.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:52:14.8-00:52:17.1 testimony first hand
72
Edward C. Aldridge served as Under Secretary of the Air Force.
“Edward C. Aldridge was pretty instrumental during his time as Under Secretary of the Air Force”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:52:20.8-00:52:25.1 administrative first hand
73
UAP Gerb considers Edward C. Aldridge to have been instrumental, while Under Secretary of the Air Force, in morphing legacy programmes and using expanding special access programme (SAP) security controls to hide them within other programmes and programme cover offices.
“Edward C. Aldridge was pretty instrumental during his time as Under Secretary of the Air Force for helping programs kind of morph legacy programs and take advantage of expanding SAP security controls to kind of hide itself within other programs and program cover offices.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:52:20.8-00:52:35.3 opinion first hand
74
The Administrative Assistant to the Secretary of the Air Force is a high-level position within the headquarters of the United States Air Force.
“which is a pretty high level position within the Air Force, specifically the headquarters of the Air Force”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:52:49.9-00:52:54.3 administrative first hand
75
The Office of the Administrative Assistant to the Secretary of the Air Force contained entities known as "outside activities", a collection of Air Force activities existing outside the Air Force over which the Air Force had administrative and operational control.
“there were what was known as outside activities. within the SAFAA... which was a collection of Air Force activities that existed outside of the Air Force that the Air Force had administrative and operational control over.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:52:56.4-00:53:11.6 testimony second hand
76
The "outside activities" within the Office of the Administrative Assistant to the Secretary of the Air Force were morphed during Edward C. Aldridge's tenure.
“And these were created in Pete Aldridge's time, not necessarily created, but kind of morphed in Pete Aldridge's time”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:53:01.7-00:53:07.6 testimony first hand
77
The programmes placed under the Office of the Administrative Assistant to the Secretary of the Air Force by Edward C. Aldridge bypassed that office's special access programme oversight channel, SAF/AAZ, which covers information, special programme oversight and security.
“these programs that were stuffed under SAFAA... by Aldridge, bypassed the SAFAA's special access program oversight channels, which is the SAFAAZ... which is info slash special program oversight slash security.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:53:18.8-00:53:29.3 testimony first hand
78
UAP Gerb regards the bypassing of traditional special access programme oversight channels by Edward C. Aldridge's outside activities under cover offices as a major warning sign.
“under Aldridge, he kind of morphed these outside activities under cover offices that bypass traditional special access program oversight channels. That's like a really big red alert.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:53:44.5-00:53:55.7 opinion first hand
79
Russell E. Weiler and William E. McClure held two senior positions in the Office of the Administrative Assistant to the Secretary of the Air Force.
“that SAF/AA position, two senior positions there, a man by the name Russell E. Weiler and William E. McClure”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:54:05.9-00:54:11.0 administrative first hand
80
UAP Gerb believes that either Russell E. Weiler or William E. McClure is the gatekeeper Chris Mellon referred to in 2024.
“are likely one of them is likely the gatekeeper that Chris Mellon was talking about back in 2024.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:54:12.2-00:54:16.6 opinion first hand
81
In the image Chris Mellon posted on Twitter, Chris Mellon told a senior United States Government official that he thought they had tracked down the Senior Executive Service gatekeeper in the Air Force, with the name redacted, crediting work by Alex Katz and himself, and identifying the person as most likely either the former SAF/AAH sensitive activities official Russell E. Weiler or the SAF/AAZ official William E. McClure.
“It was Chris Mellon talking to a senior USG official and saying, hey, I think we tracked down the SES senior executive service gatekeeper in the Air Force name redacted. Thanks to some work by like a good guy named Alex Katz and myself, it's either former SAF/AAH, Sensitive Activities, Russell Weiler, or AAZ, William E. McClure, most likely.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:54:27.3-00:54:46.1 hearsay second hand
82
UAP Gerb considers the next major conversation needed on legacy programmes to be establishing how they morphed and evolved from something comparable to a second Manhattan Project into a fragmented state where no participant sees the whole.
“finding out how they morphed and evolved from what you could consider the Manhattan Project 2.0 to a blind man touching the elephant. And I think that's a very critical milestone.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:55:07.0-00:55:16.4 opinion first hand
83
UAP Gerb believes the legacy programmes used to employ top minds and physicists.
“It seems like the programs used to have top minds and physicists, right?”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:57:59.1-00:58:02.2 opinion first hand
84
Ed Dahl was a primary figure named in connection with the Kingman UFO crash by the primary witness Arthur Stancil Jr.
“Dr. Ed Dahl was a primary figure named in the Kingman crash by primary witness Arthur Stancil Jr.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:58:10.6-00:58:14.8 testimony first hand
85
Ed Dahl was a premier physicist who worked on the Manhattan Project.
“Dr. Ed Dahl was a premier physicist that, you know, worked on the Manhattan Project”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:58:16.1-00:58:19.8 administrative first hand
86
According to Arthur Stancil Jr., Ed Dahl was an important figure in the early efforts of the legacy crash retrieval programmes.
“and according to Stancil, was a pretty important figure to the early efforts of legacy programs.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:58:20.2-00:58:24.4 hearsay second hand
87
Ed Dahl went on to serve as executive senior vice president of TRW Inc. in its mission systems group component.
“He would go on to serve as like executive senior VP for TRW on their mission systems group component and so forth.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 00:58:25.5-00:58:33.1 administrative first hand
88
In his video about the United States Air Force, UAP Gerb named Terry Phillips as a gatekeeper who should be considered alongside Glenn Gaffney.
“A good example is in the Air Force project, I put forward the name Terry Phillips as the gatekeeper. People should know in the same sentence as Glenn Gaffney.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:01:03.3-01:01:11.4 testimony first hand
89
UAP Gerb is withholding other names connected with the United States Air Force gatekeeper question because he considers those people to be dangerous.
“There's other names there that right now I just am a little too worried to talk about... Because they're bad people.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:01:12.5-01:01:20.3 opinion first hand
90
UAP Gerb regards Terry Phillips as a thoroughly bad person.
“Terry Phillips is POS, a real bastard.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:01:21.4-01:01:23.6 opinion first hand
91
UAP Gerb considers Luis Elizondo to have a playbook of prepared responses for interviews.
“And he has a playbook of responses.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:03:19.3-01:03:20.3 opinion first hand
92
UAP Gerb characterises the material John Ramirez had cut as an asymmetric capability.
“It's an asymmetric capability.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:04:16.9-01:04:17.6 opinion first hand
93
The Carthusian monk in Vermont spoke about the matter to the unnamed person from whom Jon Stewart obtained his information, not to Chris Ramsay.
“UAP Gerb: to you he spilled the beans? Chris Ramsay: no to this to the guy that john was getting his information from”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:15:17.7-01:15:22.2 hearsay third hand
94
Donald Kerr held senior positions at the National Reconnaissance Office, including its directorship.
“Donald Kerr was, he was... you know, either director of the NRO altogether, some pretty senior elements of the NRO.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:21:20.5-01:21:27.0 administrative first hand
95
Donald Kerr worked within the CIA Directorate of Science and Technology.
“He was within DS&T, on MITRE, EG&G special projects, VP or director.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:21:28.0-01:21:34.5 administrative first hand
96
Donald Kerr held a vice-president or director role connected with the MITRE Corporation and with EG&G special projects.
“He was within DS&T, on MITRE, EG&G special projects, VP or director.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:21:28.0-01:21:34.5 administrative first hand
97
Donald Kerr was director of Los Alamos National Laboratory.
“Director of Los Alamos. Like spook, spook, spook.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:21:36.4-01:21:39.4 administrative first hand
98
UAP Gerb regards Donald Kerr's career record as the most extensive intelligence-linked curriculum vitae he has seen.
“the most the most juicy robust CV i've ever seen in my life”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:21:41.3-01:21:44.6 opinion first hand
99
Donald Kerr and Bobby Ray Inman are both very elderly, making the collection of their testimony a race against time.
“Donald Kerr is ancient so a lot of these guys so is Bobby Ray Inman it's it's kind of a race against time”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:21:47.7-01:21:52.3 observation first hand
100
UAP Gerb considers Donald Kerr one of the most deeply embedded legacy figures in the field, judging from his career background.
“he's been one of the most ingrained legacy people, as you can just tell from his background.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:22:01.4-01:22:05.7 opinion first hand
101
UAP Gerb has asked several witnesses to pre-record their testimony for release upon their death, and each has refused, offering instead to tell him on their deathbed.
“I've tried with multiple people, And they say that they will tell me on their deathbed, but not pre-record to release it on their deathbed.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:22:11.7-01:22:18.6 testimony first hand
102
UAP Gerb regards the testimony of the unnamed person claiming to have retired at a very high level within an element of the United States armed forces, with whom he is in contact, as one of the most important that must be heard.
“There's one very specific person that has, in my opinion, one of the most... worthy testimonies that must be heard.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:22:29.2-01:22:35.8 opinion first hand
103
A person claiming to have retired at a very high level within an element of the United States armed forces has promised UAP Gerb that he will summon him to his deathbed to give his testimony, but is in poor health, and UAP Gerb doubts the conversation will be possible.
“he says, you know what, when I'm dying, I'll summon you to my deathbed and I'll tell you, but the guy's in really bad health ... there's no guarantee we could have that conversation with, with his poor health.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:22:36.7-01:22:41.8 testimony second hand
104
The person claiming to have retired at a very high level within an element of the United States armed forces, in contact with UAP Gerb, withholds his testimony for fear of reprisals, having on several occasions during their communications been threatened with the loss of his pension if he did not stop.
“Reprisals. During the course of our communications, there have been several instances where you know some some keys will be dangled above him saying hey you better stop or like we're taking away your pension”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:23:03.0-01:23:12.7 testimony second hand
105
The unnamed witness in contact with UAP Gerb claims to have retired at a very high level within a certain element of the United States armed forces.
“this guy retired at a very high level within um a certain element of the armed forces”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:23:13.3-01:23:17.1 administrative second hand
106
The person claiming to have retired at a very high level within an element of the United States armed forces, in contact with UAP Gerb, is himself disabled and has family members who depend on his pension to live, which is the pressure point used against him.
“he has family members that rely on him to live because of disability so he's ultra worried because he's disabled himself that pension gets taken away he can't live those members of his family can't live either so that's this big pain point that they love to target”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:23:18.3-01:23:31.7 testimony second hand
107
The person claiming to have retired at a very high level within an element of the United States armed forces, in contact with UAP Gerb, has seen bodies.
“Chris Ramsay: this guy seen bodies? UAP Gerb: yes”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:23:32.2-01:23:33.5 testimony second hand
108
The person claiming to have retired at a very high level within an element of the United States armed forces, in contact with UAP Gerb, has seen technology, craft and aircraft as well as bodies.
“Chris Ramsay: Seen body, seen tech, seen craft. UAP Gerb: Yeah. Chris Ramsay: Seen aircraft too.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:23:38.0-01:23:41.6 testimony second hand
109
Some witnesses have approached Steven Greer under doctor-patient privilege, entering into an agreement placing Greer in the position of a health caretaker so that their communications are protected under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act.
“Some people will be very shrewd and approach Greer from a doctor-patient privilege ... they'll enter into an agreement with Greer where Greer is in a position of like a health caretaker. ... And so all of their communications with Greer will be protected via HIPAA.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:23:56.0-01:24:07.8 observation first hand
110
Steven Greer is a licensed medical doctor.
“of course, Greer is a licensed doctor”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:23:59.6-01:24:01.2 administrative first hand
111
UAP Gerb considers that Steven Greer has on several occasions collected and released testimony illegally from people who approached him under the protections of the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, and regards this as both highly unethical and wrong.
“So Greer has collected and distributed testimony illegally on several occasions of people who approach him under the guidelines of HIPAA. And he takes it upon himself to release that and talk about that. And that is both highly unethical and just wrong.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:24:21.7-01:24:35.1 opinion first hand
112
Many witnesses have brought their accounts to Steven Greer.
“A lot of people have come across Greer's desk.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:24:42.8-01:24:46.0 observation first hand
113
UAP Gerb considers that Steven Greer has taken people's testimonies and expanded on them to suit his own needs.
“but also done the wrong thing of taking people's testimonies and expanding on them to suit his needs.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:25:07.3-01:25:12.0 opinion first hand
114
Steven Greer has been threatened with legal action over a violation of the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) and has been legally mandated to take down documents, but continues to talk about them.
“He's been legally mandated to take down their documents because he's been threatened with legal action because of the HIPAA violation, and he still talks about them.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:25:35.2-01:25:43.1 testimony first hand
115
James Fox, asked by UAP Gerb whether he remembered shooting an interview later used by Steven Greer, confirmed he did and said he was unaware that Steven Greer had cut out all of his parts.
“And I talked to James Fox about it. I said, hey, do you remember shooting this? And he said, yeah, of course. I was like, do you know Greer cut out all of your parts? He said, no.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:26:31.6-01:26:38.2 testimony second hand
116
In the raw interview recordings held in the Disclosure Project Investigations (DPI) archive, James Fox can be heard beginning to ask questions before the recording cuts, unlike the versions posted to YouTube.
“not like the interview here posted to YouTube, but in the archives of the DPI archive, you can hear sort of the raw interview. And at certain parts, James Fox will start to ask a question, then it'll just cut.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:26:42.3-01:26:53.5 observation first hand
117
UAP Gerb uses physical training to stay sane while working on the UFO subject.
“Well, I, you got to, to stay sane sometimes on this subject.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:27:40.0-01:27:42.8 testimony first hand
118
UAP Gerb does not cover daily UFO news and is thankful for that, believing it would leave him a bundle of nerves.
“I'm so thankful I don't really spend time doing like news of the day stuff or kind of capturing news. I would be a bundle of nerves.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:30:33.6-01:30:40.4 opinion first hand
119
UAP Gerb considers that a person covering daily UFO news has knowledge as wide as an ocean but as deep as a puddle, because there is no time to specialise in individual parts of the subject.
“your knowledge is as wide as an ocean, but as deep as a puddle, right? Because you don't have the time or ability to really specialize in various parts of the subject.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 01:33:45.4-01:33:52.4 opinion first hand
120
UAP Gerb considers that researchers of the UFO subject each specialise in different aspects of it - experiencers, science and physics, and legacy programme material - and that covering all of it at once would be impossible.
“All of us focus and specialize in different aspects of this topic. ... experiencers, science and physics, legacy program stuff. It'd be so impossible to cover all of it at once.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 lines 346-350 opinion first hand
121
UAP Gerb trains jiu-jitsu four times a week and does weight training twice a week, favouring compound movements such as squats and deadlifts over the leg press.
“Jiu-jitsu four times a week and two times a week. ... more so compound movements instead of like a leg press. Like squats, deadlifts.”
Jesse Michels, UAPGerb & Chris Ramsay - Flying Saucer Diner 2026-07-17 lines 96-119 testimony first hand