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Legacy Program

The Legacy Program is a name used by former officials and researchers for an alleged long-running, informally structured effort within the US government and defence industry to retrieve and reverse-engineer crashed craft of nonhuman origin.

1947 · Alleged crash-retrieval and reverse-engineering effort · Unofficial; not publicly acknowledged by the US government

The Legacy Program is the name given to a larger effort, involving elements of the United States government and American defence contractors, to retrieve and reverse-engineer crashed craft of nonhuman origin.1 The program, and the wider Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (UAP) issue itself, date to 1947.2 Luis Elizondo, a former Pentagon UAP programme director, has called it the most secretive (‘black’) program he is aware of.3 Eric Davis attended several senior-level meetings with branches of the US military at which he detailed the program’s long-running efforts.4

The program is distinct from the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP): the Legacy Program existed separately from AAWSAP,5 which began in 2008.6 Eric Burlison has said the two are not necessarily the same thing.7 Even under Kona Blue, a follow-on effort intended to operate as a Special Access Program (SAP), the AAWSAP team never gained access to the program.8 Security personnel involved in Kona Blue located the program’s gatekeepers, who said access would not be granted until Kona Blue itself had been given SAP designation.9 Department of Homeland Security (DHS) security officers likewise located the gatekeepers but could not gain access, because Kona Blue had not yet been made an approved SAP.10 In its later years, AAWSAP attempted to obtain craft materials and data from the program through the now-deceased Dr Jim Ryder.11 Harold E. Puthoff has said that Jay Stratton, while leading the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force (UAPTF), encountered gatekeepers controlling access to the program.12 According to Puthoff, these gatekeepers are unelected security personnel whose role is to ensure the program is not exposed.13 Burlison has said the gatekeeper structure protecting it still exists today.14 One gatekeeper has been named as Steve Cantrell, identified as the Special Assistant to the Deputy Undersecretary of the Air Force.15 According to UAP Gerb, David Grusch testified that the program’s control group involves a cadre of senior officials, many at the Senior Executive Service (SES) level, including Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) Special Access Program Central Office (SAPCO) personnel and senior figures within the Office of the Secretary of the Air Force.16 UAP Gerb has described this control group as having functioned as a weaponised body providing programme protection and exposure mitigation.17

Elizondo has said senior officials repeatedly and confidentially told him that major aerospace and defence companies had been part of the effort to retrieve and reverse-engineer crash materials.18 Those officials named Lockheed, McDonnell Douglas, Northrop Grumman, Boeing, BAE Systems and the Aerospace Corporation to him as companies involved.19 He has also said Monsanto, a biotechnology company absorbed by Bayer in 2018, may historically have been involved, most likely dealing with biological specimens.20 Elizondo has said a defence contractor associated with the program was reported to be in possession of UAP materials of nonhuman origin, made by a civilisation from a distant planet.21 He has said Jay Stratton contacted that contractor to inquire about the materials on behalf of his team, and the contractor acknowledged possessing them.22 Elizondo has concluded the US Air Force had long been a key player in efforts related to the program.23

The program and its associates blocked funding that United States Congress had appropriated to the Pentagon’s UAP Task Force.24 From the moment the task force became official, the program began quietly pushing back on Jay Stratton and the task force, creating bureaucratic hurdles.25 Elizondo has said James Lacatski and his team ran the United States’ official program on UAP, while the Legacy Program worked at cross-purposes to that effort.26 Elizondo sought a letter from James Mattis to secure access to the program’s UAP materials,27 and looked into the program’s retrieval systems but did not get very far.28 At the time, the program was in possession of advanced technology made off-world by nonhuman intelligence (NHI), existing in the shadows unknown to elected officials or the Pentagon.29 David Grusch told Congress and an inspector general what he knew about the program,30 and gave a series of public interviews about it.31 Elizondo has said the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) Disclosure Act shows Congress is aware of the program’s possession of nonhuman bodies and advanced technology not made on Earth or by human beings.32 He has said the Act’s language is a direct result of whistleblowers briefing members of Congress and their staff at the classified level, and under oath, about nonhuman intelligence (NHI) and the program’s efforts to capture, collect and reverse-engineer nonhuman-origin vehicles and, in some cases, nonhuman specimens.33 Elizondo has said Congressman Mike Turner is supported by defence contractors involved in the program.34 He has also said the Act makes it illegal for the program or anyone else to use taxpayer money on UAP-related matters unless approved by Congress.35 Elizondo has said that, according to Puthoff and others involved in the program, US presidents briefed on UAP are not given every detail because a president does not have a need to know everything and will only temporarily hold office.36 He has said the existence of the program would mean there is a deep conspiracy within the US government to keep the truth from US citizens,37 and that a programme like this would require huge resources, with security costs alone being obscene.38

The program had access to crash material and biologics.39 Puthoff has said its main problem was that it lacked the right scientists to properly understand the material it had access to,40 and considers it unlikely that its participants actually have the answers about UAP, because they too are hamstrung by a lack of access to the best scientists.41 The program was shut down because no progress had been made, since its participants could not get materials in front of scientists able to properly evaluate them.42 Puthoff has since clarified that the program itself was not shut down; rather, it was the attempt to make progress via AAWSAP that was halted.43 A specific component of the program involving defence contractors was halted, not the program as a whole.44 Puthoff bases his account of a shutdown on statements from the people who ran the effort and had it shut down, who were subsequently denied access to their own reports and materials.45 UAP Gerb has said Eric Davis and Christopher K. Mellon have stated that the program ceased in 1989 due to lack of progress.46 UAP Gerb has said Puthoff’s references to a specific element of the program being shut down in 1989 caused confusion, because it was not the entire programme.47 UAP Gerb has said the secrecy apparatus around the program, largely established as a centralised effort in 1947, has compounded and grown out of control.48 Some of the papers Puthoff commissioned on behalf of Bigelow Aerospace came from authors known to be involved in the program.49 Puthoff has said he was never himself part of the program,50 though he suspects its personnel share information selectively, based on whether doing so helps them accomplish their own objectives.51 He has also said Jay Stratton, as head of the UAP Task Force, involved around 16 different defence contractors and intelligence units in an effort to move UAP investigation forward beyond the program, but that the effort was not successful.52

Ross Coulthart has said people speaking to him from within what is called the Legacy Program convey that suppressed technological breakthroughs exist, and that there is deep frustration among them that Americans and the rest of the world are not being told the full truth.53 Coulthart wrote letters to people he assumed might know something about the program, and the responses were the most significant thing that changed his mind about UFOs.54 Nat Kobitz introduced him to people who had direct knowledge of the program.55 Coulthart has said Kobitz told him he had been read in - that is, national security briefed - into the program,56 and that the United States has recovered multiple non-human craft.57 Through Kobitz’s instigation and introductions, Coulthart met people inside the program who put everything on the line to tell him what they knew.58

  1. Definition: elements of the US government and defence contractors retrieving and reverse-engineering nonhuman craft
    “I learned the larger program is referred to as the Legacy Program and involves various elements of the US government and US defense contractors.”
    Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs ch12:9459-9591 View the source record →
  2. The program and the wider UAP issue date to 1947
    “Since the Legacy Program and the UAP issue really began in 1947”
    Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs ch31:15800-15859 View the source record →
  3. Elizondo calls it the most 'black' program he knows of
    “Nothing is more black than the Legacy Program.”
    Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs ch12:46645-46683 View the source record →
  4. Eric Davis briefed US military branches on the program's UAP efforts
    “Eric attended several senior-level meetings, to which I was invited, with various branches of the US military. During these meetings, Eric detailed the Legacy Program’s long-running efforts involving UAP.”
    Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs ch12:12870-13096 View the source record →
  5. A legacy program existed separately from AAWSAP
    “So there's the legacy program. There's the AAWSAP, which was not part of the legacy program, existed outside of it”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 00:45:57.5-00:46:03.7
  6. AAWSAP began in 2008 and was completely separate from it
    “So, AAWSAP and what we did starting in 2008 was completely separate from the legacy program.”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 00:29:35.9-00:29:43.6
  7. Burlison: the two are not necessarily the same thing
    “Dr. Puthoff, so help me understand the difference between AAWSAP and what people describe as the legacy program, because it seems like... They aren't necessarily the same thing.”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 00:27:56.1-00:28:05.2
  8. Under Kona Blue, the AAWSAP team never gained access
    “Even going for Kona Blue, we're supposed to be an SAP program. We still couldn't get access to the legacy programs.”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 00:29:50.8-00:29:57.0
  9. Kona Blue security personnel located gatekeepers, denied access pending SAP status
    “The security personnel involved in the Kona Blue thing found the gatekeepers, and the gatekeepers said, yeah. You're not going to talk to you until you have an SAP.”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 00:29:58.9-00:30:10.4
  10. DHS officers located gatekeepers but could not gain access
    “The DHS government security officers who went searching for gatekeepers... And they found them... But they couldn't get access because even to begin to get access, you're going to have SAPs and Kona Blue had not yet been turned. It was a PSAP, a proposed SAP. It had not made it across the goal line to become an SAP.”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 00:59:47.1-01:00:15.3
  11. AAWSAP later tried to obtain materials/data via Dr Jim Ryder
    “largely in terms of its later years, attempted to pry craft materials, data, et cetera, out of the legacy program through now deceased Dr. Jim Ryder”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 00:46:04.2-00:46:11.8
  12. Puthoff: Stratton encountered gatekeepers controlling access
    “he ran into the, quote, gatekeepers for the legacy program.”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 00:28:44.8-00:28:48.0
  13. Gatekeepers are unelected security personnel ensuring non-exposure
    “there are certain people who their job is to make sure that the Deep Legacy program doesn't get exposed or doesn't come to light. / Unelected individuals, yes. They're security type people.”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 00:37:06.8-00:37:23.9
  14. Burlison: the gatekeeper structure still exists today
    “And this exists today. This exists today.”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 00:37:24.2-00:37:25.9
  15. Steve Cantrell named as a gatekeeper
    “One name that comes to mind is, of course, Mr. Steve Cantrell, who's the Special Assistant to the Deputy Undersecretary of the Air Force.”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 00:38:55.8-00:39:02.2
  16. Grusch testified on the control group's composition
    “Dave Grusch actually testified to this. Many of these being SCS level senior executive service individuals, DARPA SAPCOs, very senior figures within the Secretary of the Air Force like we just spoke of.”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 00:39:13.0-00:39:25.8
  17. Control group described as a weaponised protection body
    “This has been a weaponized control group to provide program protection and program exposure mitigation.”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 00:39:27.0-00:39:33.6
  18. Senior officials told Elizondo aerospace companies were involved
    “Senior officials told me continuously and confidentially that big aerospace companies have been part of the Legacy Program to retrieve and reverse-engineer crash materials.”
    Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs ch21:4460-4622 View the source record →
  19. Companies named: Lockheed, McDonnell Douglas, Northrop Grumman, Boeing, BAE Systems, Aerospace Corporation
    “The big names included Lockheed Martin, TRW, McDonnell Douglas, Northrop Grumman, Boeing, Raytheon, BAE Systems, and the Aerospace Corporation, all of which have long been principal members of the US military-industrial complex.”
    Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs ch21:4633-4853 View the source record →
  20. Monsanto, absorbed by Bayer in 2018, possibly involved with biologics
    “I was also told that Monsanto, a biotechnology corporation absorbed by Bayer in 2018, may have historically been involved, most likely dealing with biological specimens.”
    Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs ch21:4862-5021 View the source record →
  21. A contractor reported to hold nonhuman-origin materials
    “We were told specifically that a defense contractor, associated with the Legacy Program, was in possession of UAP materials of nonhuman origin, made by some civilization from some distant planet.”
    Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs ch21:109-297 View the source record →
  22. Stratton contacted the contractor, which acknowledged possession
    “When Jay went to inquire for us, the contractor acknowledged that, yes, they were in possession of this material.”
    Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs ch21:305-409 View the source record →
  23. Elizondo: the US Air Force long a key player
    “We now knew the Air Force had long been a key player in the Legacy efforts”
    Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs ch21:1489-1556 View the source record →
  24. The program blocked Congress-appropriated UAPTF funding
    “the powers that be, took their pushback to the next level and somehow managed to block the funding that had been appropriated to the UAP Task Force by Congress”
    Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs ch31:26232-26383 View the source record →
  25. The program created bureaucratic hurdles for the task force
    “From the moment the UAP Task Force became official, the Legacy Program started quietly pushing back on Jay, behind the scenes, creating one bureaucratic hurdle after another for him, the task force, and everyone involved.”
    Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs ch31:6381-6592 View the source record →
  26. Lacatski ran the official program; Legacy Program worked at cross-purposes
    “Theoretically, Jim Lacatski and his team ran the US’s official program on UAP, but at the same time the Legacy Program was working at cross-purposes to ours.”
    Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs ch12:45975-46127 View the source record →
  27. Elizondo wanted a Mattis letter to access materials
    “I wanted a letter to secure access to the Legacy Program’s UAP materials.”
    Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs ch25:22036-22099 View the source record →
  28. Elizondo looked into retrieval systems but did not get far
    “Well, I think he dug around like we all did, but didn't get very far.”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 00:45:00.3-00:45:03.8
  29. Program held off-world advanced technology, unknown to officials
    “All the while, the Legacy Program existed in the shadows, in possession of advanced technology made off-world by nonhuman intelligence, but seemingly no elected officials and no one at the Pentagon knew about it.”
    Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs ch28:7364-7573 View the source record →
  30. Grusch told Congress and an inspector general
    “Not only did Dave tell Congress and the inspector general what he knew about the Legacy Program”
    Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs ch32:1074-1162 View the source record →
  31. Grusch gave public interviews about the program
    “he also went public and did a series of interviews telling the world what he knew”
    Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs ch32:1175-1252 View the source record →
  32. UAP Disclosure Act shows Congress aware of nonhuman bodies/tech
    “This historic legislation proves that Congress is aware of the Legacy Program's possession of nonhuman bodies and advanced technology not made here on earth and not made by human beings”
    Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs ch32:4211-4390 View the source record →
  33. Act's language stems from classified whistleblower briefings
    “The language in this historic piece of legislation is a direct result of whistleblowers briefing members of Congress and their staff at the classified level and even under oath about the reality of nonhuman intelligence and the Legacy Program's efforts to capture, collect, and reverse-engineer these vehicles of nonhuman origin and, in some cases, collect nonhuman specimens”
    Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs ch32:4967-5333 View the source record →
  34. Mike Turner supported by contractors involved in the program
    “Congressman Mike Turner, who is very much supported by the defense contractors involved in the Legacy Program”
    Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs ch32:6791-6893 View the source record →
  35. Act bars taxpayer money on UAP matters without Congress approval
    “it makes it very illegal for the Legacy Program or anyone to use taxpayers' money for UAP-related matters unless it's been approved by Congress”
    Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs ch32:7282-7417 View the source record →
  36. Presidents not briefed on all details, per Puthoff and others
    “As Hal mentioned once, and according to some involved in Legacy UAP, presidents simply don’t have a need to know everything, and they will only temporarily be in their position.”
    Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs ch31:16010-16178 View the source record →
  37. Elizondo: existence implies a deep government conspiracy
    “The existence of the Legacy Program would mean there was a deep conspiracy within the US government to keep the truth from US citizens.”
    Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs ch21:5438-5564 View the source record →
  38. Elizondo: such a programme would need huge resources, obscene security costs
    “Such a program would require huge resources, not only to conduct daily operations. The costs of program security alone would be obscene.”
    Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs ch21:5574-5702 View the source record →
  39. The program had access to crash material and biologics
    “they certainly had access”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 00:32:00.9-00:32:01.7
  40. Main problem: lacked the right scientists to evaluate material
    “but they didn't have the right scientists to even understand what they were looking / that was the main problem”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 00:32:02.8-00:32:06.7
  41. Puthoff doubts participants have real answers, lacking top scientists
    “I'm not sure that they actually have the answers either. That's because they're also hamstrung in the legacy program of not being able to get to the best scientists.”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 00:31:27.4-00:31:37.2
  42. Shut down for lack of progress evaluating materials
    “The program got shut down, actually, I don't quite remember the date, because no progress had been made. Because they couldn't get materials in front of scientists who could do a good job of evaluating them. So it died, more or less.”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 00:32:18.5-00:32:33.8
  43. Puthoff clarifies: the program itself was not shut down; the AAWSAP attempt was
    “Yeah, the legacy program didn't get shut down. I'm just saying- / The attempt to make progress via AAWSAP.”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 00:34:19.3-00:34:21.7
  44. Only a specific contractor-linked component was halted
    “Well, apparently the program got, not the legacy program, but the program involved some of the defense contractors got shut down.”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 00:34:37.9-00:34:47.1
  45. Puthoff's account rests on statements from those who ran and shut it down
    “Based on the people who had the program and had it shut down from them. I mean, that was really shut down. They couldn't even get access to their own reports that they had written or their own materials.”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 00:33:34.4-00:33:46.1
  46. Davis and Mellon said it ceased in 1989
    “are you echoing the sentiments of some of your compatriots like Eric Davis and Christopher Mellon that the program was ceased in 1989 due to lack of progress?”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 00:32:57.0-00:33:04.5
  47. 1989 shutdown reference concerned one element, causing confusion
    “when Dr. Puthoff's talking about the program being shut down in 1989, there was so much confusion. And I think we reached a good point today where it wasn't the program that was shut down, but a specific element of the legacy program that was shut down”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 00:58:00.2-00:58:11.5
  48. Secrecy apparatus, centralised from 1947, has grown out of control
    “The secrecy apparatus of these programs, which were largely established as a centralized effort in 1947, have compounded and grown and spiraled so out of control.”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 00:57:49.7-00:57:58.4
  49. Bigelow Aerospace papers commissioned from program-linked authors
    “In some of the cases, we got really great papers from people who we knew were involved in the legacy program anyway.”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 00:12:09.7-00:12:15.6
  50. Puthoff was never part of the program
    “I don't know for sure because I've never been part of the legacy program”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 01:00:31.5-01:00:34.8
  51. Puthoff suspects selective information-sharing by program personnel
    “I imagine that the legacy program people sit back there and if somebody comes along like say, a proposed Kona Blue, they may share information if they feel it's going to help them do whatever they're supposed to be doing, or if they think it's not going to help them, they just won't cooperate.”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 01:00:35.4-01:00:53.8
  52. Stratton involved ~16 contractors/agencies, without success
    “he got all... kinds of different defense contractors and intelligence units, all 16 or whatever, involved in trying to move the program forward beyond what the legacy program was doing, and they were not successful.”
    Episode 73: Science vs. Secrecy 00:36:18.1-00:36:34.1
  53. Sources describe suppressed breakthroughs and frustration at secrecy
    “That's certainly what's being conveyed to me by people I'm speaking to from within what's called the legacy program. There is a deep frustration that Americans, the rest of the world aren't being told the full truth. They want this story out.”
    Ross Coulthart Answers Your Biggest UAP Questions | Reality Check with Ross Coulthart 00:21:56.9-00:22:14.0
  54. Coulthart's letters and their responses changed his view of UFOs
    “probably the most significant was as a result of a whole lot of letters that I wrote to people who I just assumed might know something about the legacy program if it existed.”
    Ross Coulthart Answers Your Biggest UAP Questions | Reality Check with Ross Coulthart 00:30:39.0-00:30:49.9
  55. Kobitz introduced Coulthart to people with direct knowledge
    “It was Nat who introduced me to people who had direct knowledge of the program”
    Ross Coulthart Answers Your Biggest UAP Questions | Reality Check with Ross Coulthart 00:31:53.3-00:32:00.4
  56. Kobitz told Coulthart he had been read in to the program
    “Nat also told me that he had been read in i.e. security briefed national security briefed into the legacy program”
    Ross Coulthart Answers Your Biggest UAP Questions | Reality Check with Ross Coulthart 00:32:02.3-00:32:12.0
  57. Kobitz told Coulthart the US has recovered multiple non-human craft
    “the fact that the United States has recovered quote multiple non-human craft”
    Ross Coulthart Answers Your Biggest UAP Questions | Reality Check with Ross Coulthart 00:32:12.5-00:32:18.3
  58. Kobitz's introductions led Coulthart to sources who took real risks to speak
    “as a result of his instigation and his introductions, I met some fabulous, brave, courageous people inside the legacy program who put everything on the line to tell me what they knew.”
    Ross Coulthart Answers Your Biggest UAP Questions | Reality Check with Ross Coulthart 00:34:56.2-00:35:10.3

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