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Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs

A 60 Minutes segment broadcast on 2021-05-17 in which correspondent Bill Whitaker interviewed former Navy pilots and officials about their encounters with unidentified aerial phenomena, including the 2004 USS Nimitz incident and ongoing sightings off the US Atlantic coast.

Video · 60 Minutes · 2021-05-17 · 13:45

“Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs” is a segment broadcast by 60 Minutes on 2021-05-17, correspondent Bill Whitaker reporting. The segment aired against a backdrop of shifting official posture: the United States government had by that point grudgingly acknowledged the existence of Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) after what Whitaker characterised as decades of public denial,1 and the US Senate Select Committee on Intelligence had ordered the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) and the Secretary of Defense to deliver a report on UAP sightings.2 The segment drew together testimony from former intelligence officials, serving and former naval aviators, and a sitting senator, presenting the most concentrated public accounting of the UAP issue to that date.

A central figure in the segment is Luis Elizondo, who spent 20 years running military intelligence operations worldwide before being asked to join a Pentagon programme in 2008.34 That programme, the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP), was established to collect and analyse information involving anomalous aerial vehicles (AAV), known in common parlance as UFOs.5 AATIP was part of a $22 million programme sponsored by then Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid,6 and Elizondo took over its leadership in 2010, focusing on the national security implications of UAP documented by US service members.7 The programme was staffed by a loose-knit mix of scientists, electro-optical engineers, avionics and intelligence experts, often working part-time.13 Elizondo described the UAP under investigation as capable of performing manoeuvres of 600 to 700 G-forces8 and flying at approximately 21,000 kilometres per hour,9 while also being able to evade radar,10 traverse air, water, and possibly space,11 and exhibiting no obvious signs of propulsion, no wings, and no control surfaces.12 AATIP investigated alternative explanations, including new Chinese cruise missile technology and high-altitude reconnaissance balloons, before concluding the phenomenon was real and present in US airspace.14 Funding for AATIP was eliminated in 2012, though Elizondo and a small group continued the mission;35 he ultimately resigned from the Pentagon in 2017, having first secured the declassification of three Navy UAP videos.36

The segment features Ryan Graves, a former United States Navy Lieutenant,15 who described UAP encounters off the US Atlantic coast near Virginia Beach. His F/A-18 squadron began seeing UAP hovering over restricted airspace southeast of Virginia Beach in 2014, after their jets’ radar was updated to enable targeting with infrared cameras.16 Graves noted that the dual detection of UAP by both radar and infrared is hard to spoof.17 Pilots training in the area observed UAP every day for at least a couple of years.18 Graves himself observed no exhaust plume on the objects.19 In 2015, a UAP was also captured on a targeting camera off the coast of Florida Jacksonville,20 where the object appeared to be rotating and moving against the wind, which was approximately 220 kilometres per hour.21 Graves considered the most probable explanation to be a foreign threat observation programme, with Russian or Chinese technology as possible candidates, and expressed concern that the objects were being ignored despite appearing to surveil US operations daily.

The segment gives extended coverage to the 2004 USS Nimitz UAP encounter, an incident off Southern California documented by radar, camera, and four naval aviators.22 David Fravor, a graduate of the Top Gun Naval Flight School and commander of the F/A-18 squadron aboard the USS Nimitz,23 and Alex Dietrich, who was flying at Fravor’s wing and had not previously spoken publicly about the encounter,24 both gave first-hand testimony. In November 2004, the USS Nimitz Carrier Strike Group was training approximately 160 kilometres southwest of San Diego,25 while the advanced radar of the USS Princeton had for a week been detecting what operators described as multiple anomalous aerial vehicles (AAV) over the horizon, descending approximately 24,000 metres in less than a second.26 On 2004-11-14, Fravor and Dietrich, each with a weapons system officer in the back seat, were diverted to investigate.27 They found an area of roiling white water in an otherwise calm sea, above which Fravor observed a small white object resembling a Tic Tac.28 As Fravor spiralled down towards it, the object turned abruptly and began mirroring his movements.29 The object was approximately the size of an F/A-18, with no markings, no wings, and no exhaust plumes.30 All four aviators in the two aircraft watched the object for roughly five minutes31 before it disappeared; the USS Princeton reacquired the target approximately 97 kilometres away seconds later, and another crew briefly locked onto it before it departed again.32 Dietrich described initially attempting to categorise the object as a helicopter or drone. After the aircrew filed reports, nothing was done officially for five years until Elizondo encountered the case and investigated it through AATIP.33 AATIP found such pilot sightings compelling because they were corroborated by electro-optical data, including gun-camera footage, and by radar.34

The segment also features Christopher Mellon, who served as Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence under Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush37 and who stated with high confidence that the observed UAP are not US technology, given the positions he held within the United States Department of Defense (DoD).38 Mellon described working with Elizondo to elevate the issue within the DoD, and outlined a deliberate strategy of first engaging the public to generate interest, then pressing United States Congress, before returning to the Defense Department to compel action.39 In August 2020 the Pentagon resurrected the UAP investigation function as the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force (UAP Task Force), with service members now encouraged to report encounters.40 Senator Marco Rubio, who had received classified briefings on UAP, is also interviewed; in December 2020, while still heading the US Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, he had formally requested that the ODNI and the Pentagon present Congress with an unclassified report on the subject.41 The segment noted that the US government had publicly ignored UFOs since closing its Project Blue Book investigation in 1969,42 and that the ODNI and DoD unclassified report on UAP (2021) represented a significant departure from that posture. The Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP) and the accounts of Fravor, Dietrich, and Graves are also discussed in reporting by The New York Times and covered in History Channel programming relating to the same period of UAP disclosure activity.

  1. The US government has grudgingly acknowledged the existence of UAP after decades of public denial
    “It's the story of the U.S. government's grudging acknowledgement of Unidentified Aerial Phenomena, UAP, more commonly known as ufos after decades of public denial the pentagon now admits there's something out there”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:00:07.6-00:00:14.9
  2. The US Senate Select Committee on Intelligence ordered the ODNI and the Secretary of Defense to deliver a report on UAP sightings
    “the u.s senate wants to know what it is the intelligence committee has ordered the director of national intelligence and the secretary of defense to deliver a report on the mysterious sightings by next month”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:00:09.1-00:00:44.4
  3. Luis Elizondo spent 20 years running military intelligence operations worldwide
    “Luis Elizondo spent 20 years running military intelligence operations worldwide in Afghanistan, the Middle East, and Guantanamo.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:01:02.4-00:01:11.5
  4. In 2008, Elizondo was asked to join a Pentagon programme called AATIP
    “That's when he was asked to join something at the Pentagon called the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, or AATIP.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:01:15.6-00:01:24.1
  5. AATIP's mission was to collect and analyse information involving anomalous aerial vehicles
    “The mission of AATIP was quite simple. It was to collect and analyze information involving anomalous aerial vehicles, what I guess in the vernacular you call them UFOs. We call them UAPs.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:01:24.1-00:01:34.3
  6. AATIP was part of a $22 million programme sponsored by then Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid
    “Buried away in the Pentagon, AATIP was part of a $22 million program sponsored by then Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid to investigate UFOs.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:01:50.3-00:02:01.6
  7. Elizondo took over AATIP in 2010, focusing on national security implications of UAP documented by US service members
    “When Elizondo took over in 2010, he focused on the national security implications of unidentified aerial phenomena documented by U.S. service members.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:02:01.6-00:02:10.8
  8. The UAP under investigation can perform manoeuvres of 600 to 700 G-forces
    “Imagine a technology that can do 600 to 700 G-forces”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:02:12.6-00:02:35.2
  9. The UAP can fly at approximately 21,000 kilometres per hour
    “that can fly at 13,000 miles an hour”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:02:12.6-00:02:35.2
  10. The UAP can evade radar
    “that can evade radar”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:02:12.6-00:02:35.2
  11. The UAP can fly through air, water, and possibly space
    “that can fly through air and water and possibly space”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:02:12.6-00:02:35.2
  12. The UAP have no obvious signs of propulsion, no wings, and no control surfaces
    “has no obvious signs of propulsion, no wings, no control surfaces”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:02:12.6-00:02:35.2
  13. AATIP was a loose-knit mix of scientists, electro-optical engineers, avionics and intelligence experts, often working part-time
    “Elizondo tells us AATIP was a loose-knit mix of scientists, electro-optical engineers, avionics, and intelligence experts, often working part-time.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:02:37.0-00:02:47.7
  14. AATIP investigated alternative explanations before concluding the phenomenon was real and in US airspace
    “Is it some sort of new type of cruise missile technology that China has developed? Is it some sort of high-altitude balloon that's conducting reconnaissance? Ultimately, when you have exhausted all those what-ifs and you're still left with the fact that this is in our airspace and it's real, that's when it becomes compelling and that's when it becomes problematic.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:03:42.7-00:04:04.0
  15. Ryan Graves is a former US Navy pilot with the rank of Lieutenant
    “Former Navy pilot Lieutenant Ryan Graves calls whatever is out there a security risk.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:04:06.2-00:04:12.9
  16. Graves's F/A-18 squadron began seeing UAP hovering over restricted airspace southeast of Virginia Beach in 2014
    “He told us his F-18 squadron began seeing UAPs hovering over restricted airspace southeast of Virginia Beach in 2014 when they updated their jet's radar, making it possible to zero in with infrared targeting cameras.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:04:12.9-00:04:29.7
  17. Dual detection by both radar and infrared is hard to spoof
    “Bill Whitaker: So you're seeing it both with the radar and with the infrared, and that tells you that there is something out there. Ryan Graves: Pretty hard to spoof that.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:04:29.7-00:04:37.1
  18. Pilots training off the Atlantic coast saw UAP every day for at least a couple of years
    “Bill Whitaker: Lieutenant Graves told us pilots training off the Atlantic coast see things like that all the time. Ryan Graves: Every day. Every day for at least a couple of years.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:04:48.2-00:04:56.6
  19. Graves observed no exhaust plume on the UAP seen off the Atlantic coast
    “You know, I don't see an exhaust plume.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:05:02.5
  20. A UAP was captured on targeting camera off the coast of Jacksonville, Florida in 2015
    “including this one, off the coast of Jacksonville, Florida in 2015, captured on a targeting camera by members of Graves' squadron.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:05:04.3-00:05:12.8
  21. The object appeared to be rotating and moving against the wind, which was approximately 220 kilometres per hour
    “Look at that thing! It's rotating. My gosh! They're all going against the wind. The wind's 120 knots far west.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:05:12.8-00:05:23.8
  22. The US government publicly ignored UFOs after closing Project Blue Book in 1969
    “The government has ignored it, at least publicly, since closing its Project Blue Book investigation in 1969.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:06:23.4-00:06:30.3
  23. An incident off Southern California in 2004 was documented by radar, camera, and four naval aviators
    “But that began to change after an incident off Southern California in 2004, which was documented by radar, by camera, and four naval aviators.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:06:30.3-00:06:40.8
  24. David Fravor is a graduate of the Top Gun Naval Flight School and was commander of the F/A-18 squadron on the USS Nimitz
    “David Fravor, a graduate of the Top Gun Naval Flight School and commander of the F-18 squadron on the USS Nimitz”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:06:40.8-00:06:50.0
  25. Alex Dietrich was flying at Fravor's wing during the 2004 USS Nimitz encounter and had never spoken publicly about it before
    “and flying at his wing, Lieutenant Alex Dietrich, who has never spoken publicly about the encounter.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:06:50.0-00:06:57.3
  26. In November 2004 the USS Nimitz Carrier Strike Group was training approximately 160 kilometres southwest of San Diego
    “It was November 2004, and the USS Nimitz Carrier Strike Group was training about 100 miles southwest of San Diego.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:07:14.4-00:07:23.1
  27. For a week, the advanced radar on the USS Princeton detected multiple AAV over the horizon, descending approximately 24,000 metres in less than a second
    “For a week, the advanced new radar on a nearby ship, the USS Princeton, had detected what operators called multiple anomalous aerial vehicles over the horizon, descending 80,000 feet in less than a second.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:07:23.1-00:07:39.3
  28. On 2004-11-14, Fravor and Dietrich were each with a weapons system officer and diverted to investigate the AAV
    “On November 14, Fravor and Dietrich, each with a weapons system officer in the backseat, were diverted to investigate.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:07:39.3-00:07:47.8
  29. Fravor saw a little white Tic Tac-shaped object moving above the white water area
    “And we saw this little white tic-tac-looking object. And it's just kind of moving above the whitewater area.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:07:55.9-00:08:09.7
  30. As Fravor spiralled down, the object turned abruptly and mirrored his movements
    “The tic-tac's still pointing north-south. It goes and just turns abruptly and starts mirroring me. So as I'm coming down, it starts coming up.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:08:17.9-00:08:24.5
  31. The object was about the size of an F/A-18, with no markings, no wings, and no exhaust plumes
    “He said it was about the size of his F-18, with no markings, no wings, no exhaust plumes.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:08:30.5-00:08:37.0
  32. Four aviators watched the object for roughly five minutes
    “There was four of us in the airplanes literally watching this thing for roughly about five minutes.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:09:00.9-00:09:08.9
  33. Seconds after the object disappeared, the USS Princeton reacquired the target approximately 97 kilometres away
    “Seconds later, the Princeton reacquired the target, 60 miles away. Another crew managed to briefly lock onto it with a targeting camera before it zipped off again.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:09:08.9-00:09:20.8
  34. After air crew filed reports on the encounter, nothing was done officially for five years until Elizondo investigated
    “The air crew filed reports. Then, like the mysterious flying object, the Nimitz encounter disappeared. Nothing was said or done officially for five years until Lou Elizondo came across the story and investigated.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:09:56.5-00:10:13.2
  35. AATIP found pilots' sightings compelling because they were backed up by electro-optical and radar data
    “We spend millions of dollars in training these pilots, and they are seeing something that they can't explain. Furthermore, that information's being backed up on electro-optical data, like gun camera footage, and by radar data. Now, to me, that's compelling.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:10:13.2-00:10:27.7
  36. Funding for AATIP was eliminated in 2012, but Elizondo and a handful of others kept the mission alive
    “AATIP's funding was eliminated in 2012, but Elizondo says he and a handful of others kept the mission alive.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:10:31.7-00:10:39.5
  37. Elizondo quit the Pentagon in 2017, having first got three Navy UAP videos declassified
    “until finally, frustrated, he quit the Pentagon in 2017, but not before getting these three videos declassified.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:10:39.5-00:10:48.8
  38. Christopher Mellon served as Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence under Presidents Clinton and Bush
    “Christopher Mellon served as Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence for Presidents Clinton and George W. Bush, and had access to top-secret government programs.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:10:57.5-00:11:08.4
  39. Mellon states with high confidence that the UAP are not US technology, given the positions he held
    “So it's not us, that's one thing we know. ... I could say that with a very high degree of confidence, in part because of the positions I held in the department, and I know the process.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:11:08.4-00:11:18.7
  40. Mellon and Elizondo's strategy was to go to the public, then to Congress, and then circle back to the Defense Department
    “We knew and understood that you had to go to the public, get the public interested to get Congress interested, to then circle back to the Defense Department and get them to start taking a look at it.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:11:57.6-00:12:07.2
  41. In August 2020 the Pentagon resurrected AATIP as the UAP Task Force and encouraged service members to report strange encounters
    “This past August, the Pentagon resurrected AATIP. It's now called the UAP Task Force. Service members now are encouraged to report strange encounters.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:12:07.2-00:12:20.1
  42. In December 2020, Marco Rubio asked the ODNI and the Pentagon to present Congress an unclassified report on UAP
    “This past December, while he was still head of the Intelligence Committee, he asked the Director of National Intelligence and the Pentagon to present Congress an unclassified report by next month.”
    Navy pilots describe encounters with UFOs 00:12:34.0-00:12:46.3
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